tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-89906980708594926092024-03-13T19:20:21.190+00:00The Exit Door Leads InI happen to like nicotine, that does not mean I want to eat your children!Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-80621940884219956622016-01-18T13:46:00.002+00:002016-01-18T14:09:53.608+00:00Damn those kids!So I am sitting here sorta sniggering to myself despite being infuriated by the latest study that shows very little yet professes to show an awful lot which includes wibbling about gateways and so on and blah blah. It is all very boring and predictable and can be found <span style="color: #8e7cc3;"><a href="http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2016/01/17/tobaccocontrol-2015-052593.full" target="_blank">here</a>.</span><br />
<br />
As I sat reading through it this morning, becoming increasingly frustrated at its contents and tortured conclusions, one part really tickled me.<br />
<br />
There are 3 paragraphs on what is, essentially, wrong with the study usefully included within the..uh..study itself. To be fair this is common practice but I don't think I have yet read one that has so many suggestions on how they could have done it better. It does rather beg the question of 'Well, why didn't you actually do that then?' from which the appropriate conclusion can be drawn of 'Because we want more funding'<br />
<br />
One of these suggestions particularly tickled me. It transpires that the control group were not exposed to any advertising whatsoever, unlike the other two groups who were shown ads that contained either 'Candy flavoured' (ARGH! - Candy? Seriously people of Cambridge university?) and 'non-flavoured' e-cigs. It does not say what the adverts were so I can only guess at that. Actually, I can't even do that, I have literally no idea. Does non-flavoured mean tobacco or no flavour mentioned at all?<br />
<br />
So the control group just had to answer some questions on their attitudes to smoking. Anyway, their suggestion to improve on this in the <i>next </i>study was to ensure that the control group had some adverts to look at too, you know so they had something to actually compare with what with this being a study about the effects of advertising on 11 - 16 year olds. Our esteemed researchers suggest that a suitable product would be stationary.<br />
<br />
Yes. Stationary.<br />
<br />
I am now plagued with scenarios of how this would play out. So I introduce to you Jenny and Johnny.<br />
<br />
Jenny has been given a booklet with lots of colourful pictures of e-cig adverts in such flavours as bubblegum, candy floss and chocolate.<br />
<br />
Johnny has been given a booklet of adverts for bic biros, various types of A4 paper, staples and some paper clips.<br />
<br />
Researcher - Right girls and boys, I would like you to open your booklets and look at the first picture then answer a few questions about it on the next page. Once you have done this first one please ask if you have any questions and then continue with the rest of pictures.<br />
<br />
Johnny - Miss? Isn't this study about if I want to buy things?<br />
<br />
Researcher - Yes dear, just as we talked about at the start. Is that ok?<br />
<br />
Johnny - Well..um..yes. It's just that I have an advert for a fine nibbed biro, have I got the right booklet?<br />
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Researcher - Yes that's right. Have a look and then answer whether you liked the advert and if you would like to buy it. You get pocket money?<br />
<br />
Johnny - Yes I do.<br />
<br />
Researcher - So would you spend your pocket money on that or any of the other things in the booklet?<br />
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Johnny - The biro?<br />
<br />
R - Yes, the biro.<br />
<br />
Johnny - [ riffling through pages ] What about the 80gsm printer paper?<br />
<br />
R - Yes that too but please do one page at a time.<br />
<br />
Johnny - Would I spend my pocket money on pens and paper?<br />
<br />
R - Yes, please write down your answers.<br />
<br />
Johnny - I buy comic books with my pocket money.<br />
<br />
R - Yes, but would you buy those things there Johnny?<br />
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Johnny - [ Disbelief ] With my own money?<br />
<br />
R - YES! - uh.. yes<br />
<br />
Johnny - But my mum and dad buy those things, why would I use my money? What does gsm stand for? [ calls across the classroom ] Jenny? What are you looking at?<br />
<br />
R - No, please don..<br />
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Jenny - Dunno, those ecig things<br />
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R - Girls and boys I really mu...<br />
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Johnny - So why have I got a picture of Asda's Back To School pencil case with the plastic semi circle ruler thing in it?<br />
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Jenny - Dunno, but did you know these come in bubblegum flavour? [surprised]<br />
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R - JENNY!<br />
<br />
Johnny - What? No! Bet they're expensive. Hey I bought some extra lives on Candy Crush the other day, what level are you on? Hey Miss? Can't I have some pictures of computer games or something? I have my ...<br />
<br />
R - Johnny please...<br />
<br />
Johnny - ...mums google wallet thing on my phone and she lets me use it for my pocket money. AND I got some FIFA coins the other day!<br />
<br />
Jenny - Have you seen that advert for Clash of Clans with James Corden in? OMG that baby dragon thing is SO COOL! I am going to get a new phone for my birthday so I will be able to play it then!<br />
<br />
R - Children<br />
<br />
Jenny - Did you see Star Wars? Dad says I can have a Hans Solo doll if I stop biting my fingernails<br />
<br />
Johnny - Oh man that is so cool, I wish I bit my fingernails. How cool was it though when Hans Solo died...<br />
<br />
R - Really now chil...<br />
<br />
Johnny - I was like OMG NO WAY<br />
<br />
R - Johnny...<br />
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Jenny - Yeah I know!! And Chewie was all like upset and stuff and...<br />
<br />
R - Jenny, could yo...<br />
<br />
Johnny - yeah yeah and like I swear my mum was like crying or something..<br />
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R - CHILDREN!!<br />
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J&J - Yes?<br />
<br />
R - [ close to tears ] Please, just, concentrate.<br />
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Johnny - this is so boring,<br />
<br />
[Hallway after session has fnished]<br />
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Jenny - Why do they keep asking us this stuff about ecigs?<br />
<br />
Johnny - Dunno, it's annoying though. Did you see on Facebook that everyone is using them?<br />
<br />
Jenny - Really? Sez who?<br />
<br />
Johnny - Oh scientists and stuff, it was in a paper. My mum shares that stuff all the time. Apparently they are just as bad as real fags.<br />
<br />
Jenny - Yeah I know, that is why my dad won't use one. I used to think they were good but he said 'No'.<br />
<br />
[Debrief among researchers]<br />
<br />
Well I think this is fairly conclusive, none of the kids wanted to buy the stationary and they were fairly apathetic about the ads....<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com17tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-60103215665771585392016-01-11T14:09:00.000+00:002016-01-12T00:48:37.966+00:00The Lysol LadyIt has been an odd few days for me, bittersweet you might say. A much needed 4 day break from Twitter to get my thoughts in order and work out just what part I am playing in all this and if it is worth the stress I am putting on myself.<br />
<br />
4 days later and I haven't really found an answer and I guess I did not really expect to. Maybe I wouldn't have liked the conclusion I should have come to and so avoided finding it. Who knows? I can say with absolute certainty that 4 days ago I nearly wrote my resignation from NNA and was ready to throw the towel in on all of this.<br />
<br />
I am now properly 3 years into being an e-cig advocate, whatever that means. Am I someone who advocates vaping? Fights for the right for smokers to choose their own path, unfettered by asinine rules and regulations? An ardent supporter for the re-humanisation of smokers? Someone trying to fight back against the most powerful and influential people and organisations on the planet? Or just an angry person on social media who thinks she is part of a group who has all the answers, who right now is being sat upon by an ancient cat who bears the faint aroma of a litter tray that needs changing.<br />
<br />
I think I am all of those things, I think we all are - although with some variations taking into account pet ownership. But I also think we are so far into the woods that we, too, are in danger of not seeing it for the trees.<br />
<br />
Although on the face of it my absence was as a result of a minor issue relating to the portrayal of women - though I doubt many realise that is what it was as I didn't explain it, didn't even attempt to in fact. - it was more about our arguments being applicable across the board. Whatever words we manage to squeeze into 140 characters (less @handles) are backed up by a million more supporting words that rarely get aired. I was saddened that although we all bear the marks of people that have been ostracised for a smoking habits thanks to the portrayal of smoking to society, we forgot it for a moment. Smokers are the bad guys in films and TV, they are the rapist in the Barnardos poster campaign. The bad parent, the smelly and weird guy huddled in the doorway come rain or snow or gale force wind. Smokers are the losers, the saddos, the ignorant who are blissfully killing everyone around them with their second hand smoke. All of us involved in this object to all this. We are trying to fight back against it and stop it from happening to vapers too. We understand it as we have lived it, been the smoker that is sneered at, shunned and lectured for their unsociable habit. The public has willingly adopted this loathing of smokers thanks to how they have been portrayed across every visual and aural platform there is and for decades. Perhaps the point I didn't make in my 140 characters but was backed up by a million untyped words, was that I feel the same way about how woman are portrayed too and the knock on effects it is having.<br />
<br />
See? Not really that different is it. The argument is the same no matter what the subject is. I know the portrayal of women only affects half the population, but the other half suffer it too. Surely men get sick of being shown as endlessly violent, untrustworthy, dishonest, sexual predators who can't control themselves? Of course they do and it is the same argument again. The way any one group is pictured to society eventually becomes the norm. It is how society works. But if smokers say anything, the anti-smokers scream 'ARRRRGGGHHH but you are and the evidence and the children and and and how dare you and omg you are shills and astroturf and addicts and and and'. If a woman points out she can see a downside to how women are portrayed she gets' ARRRRGGGHHH bloody feminazi, you man hater, why can't men look at women all the time, you are just jealous/fat/ugly/on your period/old/a lesbian' and likewise when a man points it the same issues for them 'ARRRRGGGHHH you bloody misgynist, you are all the same, look at the crime rates'.<br />
<br />
I point this out because the root of the arguments are all the same. The problem arises because we are all so entrenched in our particular cause that we lose sight of the similarities.<br />
<br />
So how does this relate to e-cigs?<br />
<br />
I am going to take a big calming breath before I say this as there is no more a toxic subject around than this at the minute. Perhaps you ought to also, dear reader.<br />
<br />
Med e-cigs.<br />
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yvZYNI_5CIQ/VpOmcNsA4lI/AAAAAAAAAl0/ebuvE7lqZM4/s1600/monty-python-killer-rabbit-run-away.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="225" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yvZYNI_5CIQ/VpOmcNsA4lI/AAAAAAAAAl0/ebuvE7lqZM4/s400/monty-python-killer-rabbit-run-away.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">If you don't know what this is you should be ashamed and I refuse to explain it to you!*</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
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Why is this relevant I hear you ask? Look back at why we all started this. Why did <i>you</i> start advocating for vaping? For me it was a case of being faced with a future where e-cigs were regulated out of existence. It was a fully medicinalised market or nothing at all. The bleakest of futures which sadly is being played out in various places across the globe as I type. The objective was to ensure that smokers could access vaping any which way they chose to, in whatever shape or form they wanted. It was to ensure there was no pressure, that PH and TC stopped their demonisation of smokers and did not extend it to vapers.<br />
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It was to force 'quit or die' out of their unspoken lexicon.<br />
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In the time we have all being doing this we have managed to come a long way and achieve an awful lot. But at the root of everything was choice. The ability for smokers to choose. We know that only around 8% of smokers access SSS and that the smokers for whom e-cigs seem most appealing and most effective are the ones who not only aren't interested in state support but aren't really that interested in quitting at all. The 'hard to reach'. The invisible smokers.</div>
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But, in our fight for those smokers, we seem to have forgotten that 8% of smokers who DO want support and help. At least, that is how it feels. One of the biggest appeals of vaping is the self sufficiency, the continuation of pleasure and the ability to keep something that is part of your identity rather than the state ripping it from you.</div>
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However, it does not change the fact that a minority of smokers DO want support and will ONLY take comfort from a professional when it comes to advice about quitting smoking, and after decades of being told they are hopeless and pathetic human beings who can blame them? I don't and will not judge them for it.</div>
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The bottom line is it is up to the smoker, a totally personal thing as to how they deal with becoming a non smoker, if at all. It is not up to anyone else to decide how they do that, what path they choose or even IF they choose a path. It is the smoker's choice and theirs alone.</div>
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It is our job to make sure that every smoker has every opportunity <i>if they want it. </i>If the smoker needs the reassurance of an MHRA approved device is it up to us to say they can't have it? There are so many vapers now in the UK that no matter how piss poor a medical e-cig is (and make no bones about it, this one IS piss poor in the extreme) it won't be long before another vaper says 'Ee'ya, try this instead'. And suddenly you have someone who was never going to walk into a vape shop with a proper ecig in their hand. That is a win, no?</div>
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I do have huge misgivings about a med e-cig and that is the fact that those in mental health environments could find themselves forced into only being allowed to use an approved device, and this is as bad as it gets imo. But that is right now, what if a 2nd generation device becomes available with an MA? A 3rd? Do we fight that also?</div>
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This isn't about capitulation, it is not about 'well if we agree to this...' it is about making sure that all smokers have an option which suits them. If we remove one of those options aren't we essentially saying 'quit or die' ourselves? Our way or the highway? Do we risk becoming as bad as those we are pitched in battle against?</div>
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The existence of a medical e-cig does not affect anyone in any real sense. Most smokers won't want it for the same reasons as they don't want NRT. But, I am not prepared to sacrifice that minority just cos I, personally, don't like the idea of it and would not have used that route. </div>
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We are faced with some massive problems that DO affect smokers and their perceptions of vaping and that is appalling research being disseminated without question from every media outlet in the world. The fact that vapers are slowly being painted into a corner that was previously only occupied by smokers, so that the non-smoking public can clearly see who is not welcome in their pubs, cafes and restaurants. That a hardcore of media savvy, attention seeking dinosaurs are fighting a battle that they profess is to protect the children but in reality serves only to harm smokers, punish them for being 'slaves' to an industry they despise. A mounting campaign to specifically demonise nicotine and those that use it. Usage bans being enacted at a rate that defies belief given the absolute lack of supporting evidence.These are the very real problems that we face.</div>
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In the grand scheme of things a med ecig is a distraction in a country where we have a vibrant market that, at first glance, it seems the UK gov is trying to keep. As best it can within the confines of the ludicrous TPD anyway. Already the med e-cig is being used by the media as a tool to further beat smokers with, as leeches feeding from the NHS. It is being rejected by the very people who demanded it and swore it was the only way they could accept e-cigs as a viable alternative to smoking. And to top it off, we are getting upset about a product that is likely not to ever be put into production so won't be seen on shelves anywhere. </div>
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I do not endorse this medical e-cigarette. I do not particularly endorse the concept of a med e-cig at all, but it is not about me. I found my way and it is not up to me how others find theirs. My only task is to make sure they CAN find their way if they want it. Is that not the same for all of us?<br />
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Finally, who is the Lysol Lady? Unsurprisingly, to anyone who has read previous blogs, she is a character from a PKD short story, 'Strange Memories of Death'. If you are so inclined, seek it out and have a read.<br />
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*<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92gP2J0CUjc" target="_blank"><span style="color: magenta;">I felt bad</span> </a></div>
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Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com15tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-74324517669142498172015-09-12T00:09:00.000+01:002015-09-12T00:09:04.285+01:00And Now We See Through a Glass, Darkly pt 1<div class="MsoNormal">
My very first guest blog! Quite excited actually. This is linked to my blog so to get a full picture of the situation that arose to prompt this I'd read both. Consider this 1 of 2 or 2 of 2 depending which way round you read them.</div>
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<br /></div>
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This is from Sarah Jakes (@twigolet) who is a fellow vaper and member of the board of NNA. Both my blog and this one are NOT opinions of NNA they are ours as individuals.</div>
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I want to say this before I move on to write my own post about the NHS and e-cigs. Sarah and I have come at this from different angles and what really struck me when I read this in the email she sent me was how uncomfortable it is to acknowledge the point she is making, but she is so right and I hope a lot of people (especially those involved in tobacco control in any form) read this and see one of the realities laid bare.</div>
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I have to say Thank You to Sarah, I was really upset today at the accusations and this email and her support meant a lot. Thank you also for the messages I got from other vapers - I really appreciate it!</div>
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So read on folks. Read on.</div>
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<span lang="EN-GB"><br /></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB"><br /></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB"><br /></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB">Ecigs, NNA and the NHS<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-GB">Last night one particular aspect of a blog
written by James Dunsworth on the Ashtray blog <a href="http://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2015/09/public-health-u-turn-on-e-cigs.html">http://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2015/09/public-health-u-turn-on-e-cigs.html</a>
sparked what was, to me, a rather odd response on Twitter. The blog was a
summary of events at an APPG meeting in Westminster on Wednesday which NNA
attended, and the comment was this:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB"><br /></span></div>
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<i>Lorien </i>[trustee] <i>of</i> <i>the </i><span lang="EN-GB"><a href="http://nnalliance.org/"><i><span lang="EN-US">New Nicotine Alliance</span></i></a></span><i>
believes that if the NHS supply e-cigs it would reassure smokers that e-cigs
are safer than tobacco cigarettes.<o:p></o:p></i></div>
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<i><br /></i></div>
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<i>She also pointed out that a decent e-cig kit
would set some smokers back a week’s worth of tobacco. Coupled with a worry
about whether e-cigs are safe or not that would stop a lot of smokers from
trying them. If e-cigs were supplied on the NHS, smokers could take the risk of
using them without losing a week’s worth of tobacco.<o:p></o:p></i></div>
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<i><br /></i></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB">The discussion at the meeting surrounding
the provision of ecigs on prescription was provoked by the media coverage
surrounding the recent Public Health England report most of which focussed on
that issue. It was widely accepted at the meeting that this was an irritating
distraction from the main thrust of the report, which was to correct public
misconceptions about the relative harms of ecigs when compared to smoking.
However, NNA does not control the agenda at APPG meetings, parliamentarians do,
and so the matter was raised and discussed.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB"><br /></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB">The comments on Twitter were strongly
suggestive that NNA is actively supporting and promoting the notion that ecigs
should be regulated as medicines. In fact what was actually said was “Lorien’s
NNA statement sells our consumer choice to statist f*cknuts. Which is why I
don’t trust NNA”. How anyone could come to that conclusion without having
consumed a large amount of some sort of paranoia inducing substance baffles me.
In fact, I find it utterly insulting given the large amount of our own time and
energy which Lorien and the other trustees, including myself, have given up in
order to fight this battle. The fact that the UK has one of the most
progressive policies in the world with regards to e-cigarettes is very far from
solely down to us, but we’ve certainly played our part alongside a great number
of other organisations and individuals. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB">NNA has no official position on whether or
not ecigs should be provided on the NHS. A common argument for provision by
prescription is that smoking prevalence is highest in poorer groups of people
who may not wish to take the financial risk of purchasing an ecig and
prescription will assist with this barrier. My own view is that that is an over
simplification and I explained my thoughts in a recent email:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span lang="EN-GB">Whenever
I hear the socioeconomic arguments about smoking behaviour / cessation and
ecigs I wonder why no one ever seems to ask themselves why people in the lower
groups show higher dependence and failure to quit. If their quit attempt rate
is the same then I guess you can say that as many of them want to quit as do in
other groups, so what is it about being poorer that makes that more
difficult? <o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<i><span lang="EN-GB"><br /></span></i></div>
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<i><span lang="EN-GB">I
don't think it's as simple as offering them free stuff although that might
help. But a decent starter kit can now be bought for the price of 3 packs of
hooky fags, so what is making the difference? I think it's something that runs
much deeper. When people quit I think that's because they're looking to the future
in terms of health and wellbeing, and maybe that's something people do less of
if they have little in the way of prospects. They see the health warnings,
think they probably should quit but don't really have as much incentive to
stick at it as more affluent people do? <o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<i><span lang="EN-GB"><br /></span></i></div>
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<i><span lang="EN-GB">For
many people smoking could be one of their only luxuries, and it's a social
thing which people share - it could be that it means a lot more to people in
those groups than it does to those with more alternatives. If so then the lost
enjoyment cost of giving up smoking could outweigh the perceived benefits, or
at least be much more finely balanced than in other groups. The 'health
inequality' arguments are then futile because the balance people seek is about
much more than just health and finances. Medical and scientific thinking seem
to very often forget about the 'people factor'.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<i><span lang="EN-GB"><br /></span></i></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB">Lorien however, quite rightly points out
that for some groups of smokers free or low cost ecigs could be beneficial.
Let’s be clear here, we’re not talking about a lifetime supply and we’re not
suggesting offering them to people who already vape. What we are talking about
is enabling the NHS to offer people a device which could start them on the road
to switching to vaping – people who would not otherwise try, perhaps because
they don’t want to risk spending their cigarette money on a product which will
not replace them, or perhaps because they are not confident about the relative
safety of ecigs. In either case the NHS can offer confidence and support for
those who lack it and perhaps for some a cost effective financial (for the
state) solution for those who won’t take the initial risk. </span></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB"><br /></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB">Whilst I have my
doubts about the efficacy of any medicinally regulated ecig (if one were ever
to exist) I believe the lives and health of all smokers are important, and so I
think we have to try.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-GB">The above has absolutely no bearing on NNAs
support and advocacy for ecigs as a consumer product. We are firm believers
that an important benefit of the current market is the fact that consumers<b> choose</b> to use ecigs as a safer
alternative to smoking. They work precisely because they are not medicinal and
because they empower people to take control of their own health and lifestyle.
This is a point which NNA makes frequently to legislators, regulators and
practitioners alike. However, ecigs don’t work for everyone who wants to stop
smoking, and so if Lorien is right and NHS prescription could help a further
group of people then that is what a caring state should try to do. Consumer
regulation and medicinal regulation are not mutually exclusive ideas and I’ve
seen absolutely no indication of any intent to use the latter to the detriment
of the former – in fact quite the opposite – what I see is a political will to
make both markets succeed. Tin foil hatters may have differing views but I’m
afraid we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Sorry about that.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com20tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-38228233829882724352015-09-12T00:08:00.003+01:002015-09-12T01:17:15.863+01:00And Now We See Through a Glass, Darkly pt 2<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">E-cigs and the NHS. Prescriptions. A medical e-cig.</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">All things guaranteed to get the blood boiling in people of both sides of the fence and even those sat atop it. This has been playing on my mind for a while and I probably would not have gotten round to writing about it had things not taken a peculiar and rather nasty turn last night.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">Fortunately, I only found out about it this morning which is a good thing cos I was on something like 60 hours wakefulness with a mere one hours sleep and I doubt I could have strung anything more than the very worst insults and swearwords I could think of. And, well, that just is not becoming for a lady and anyone who knows me will attest to how fickle I am about being a lady.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">Moving on.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">It should be fairly clear to anyone that has followed this for any length of time that vapers are not fans of the medical ecig idea, and this is for a myriad of reasons. The stigma of NRT & medicines, the restrictions it would bring about, the financial burden of obtaining the licence that would put pay to our rather lovely and exciting e-cig market that smokers are flocking to.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">But. In the UK we are somewhat fortunate, or at least more fortunate than many of our European counterparts. We will have a dual market - a consumer market and a medicinal market. At present there are no medicinal e-cigs. In fact there aren't even any ABOUT to be medicinal e-cigs. There is a misconception that BATs Voke is an ecig, it is not. It is little more than a glorified inhaler that looks like a cigarette.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">I am not about to enter into a debate in this blog about what the TPD is going to do - that is not the point of this and I do have some MAJOR concerns about a medicinal ecig, the main one being if those in mental health settings were restricted to only being able to use them. For me that is such a massive point it is almost insurmountable, however, as one of my psychotherapists once told me, you have to imagine a situation as a bubble in your hand so that you can turn it and look at it from all different angles. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">So, this is about the fact that I was roundly slaughtered by someone on Twitter for comments they thought I made in the APPG on E-cigarettes in parliament yesterday, so let me take the time to explain what I meant for those who appear to have forgotten everything I have said before.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">Firstly - I do not support a medicinalised e-cig market. I do not think that a med e-cig will be fun, appealing or even particularly effective. Despite what the public now thinks (thanks to some frankly insane headlines after the release of the PHE statement) we are not about to nor are we EVER going to see even a basic ego (second generation ) via the NHS, let alone a variable wattage or temperature control device. Whatever comes via that channel is highly unlikely to be a<span style="font-family: inherit;">nything anyone would want to use for any length of time when they have a world of options in the consumer market. </span></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">So what does it mean if one day, a device (likely to be a cigalike or similar) appears as a medical product? Who would even want it?</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">Who indeed.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">It is very important that you read the other part to this blog written by Sarah Jakes - it highlights why this is just one of a great many aspect of smoking and vaping and peoples relationships with both habits. Especially the former which we are now truly learning is far more complex than anyone dared to talk about openly.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">My point at the APPG was in response to the 'Why should the NHS pay for smokers to have an ecig? If they can afford to smoke, they can afford to vape!'.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">In many respects, I actually agree with this except in one. It is widely accepted that those smokers who would fall into the lowest socio-economical groups are most likely to be using illicit tobacco. In fact, a survey from ASH in 2011 suggests that 53% of smokers in group DE use illicit tobacco (thank you for the link DP). What does that mean? It means 'Working Class' and '<span style="line-height: 22.4px;">Casual or lowest grade workers, pensioners, and others who depend on the welfare state for their income' according to Wikipedia. For the record - I hate those phrases with a passion. </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">The prices these groups are paying for that tobacco are probably half that of what it costs to buy over the counter. I would give a precise amount but there isn't a site called 'How little can I buy tobacco for?' so I have to rely on vague tobacco control literature. We DO know that £20 will set you up with an entry level second generation e-cigarette that will be the perfect starting point for any smoker who wants to try it out.</span></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">But what has happened in the past two years? We have been bombarded with scare stories and fear-mongering. If the e-cig isn't going to blow up in your face, then it is going to jump out of your pocket and poison everyone within a mile radius! If either of those two things don't happen then it is going to fill you so full of formaldehyde that Damian Hirst is going to be banging on your door demanding to split you in two and hang you in a perspex box! And if THAT doesn't happen well it won't help you quit or change habits cos they just don't work - and anyway, they are more dangerous than cigarettes don't you know with all those ultrafine particles burning holes through the lining of yours lungs! Assuming, of course, they can get through the layers of oil that are causing lipoid pneumonia or that your lungs haven't leapt out of your MRSA riddled body and run down the road smelling slightly of popcorn. Not that <i>you'll</i> be running anywhere cos that vapour restricts the ability to breath and that mouth and throat cancer you are going to get are DEFINITELY going to stop you even walking up the stairs!</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">In fact, they are SO (possibly maybe we don't know yet) dangerous that not ONLY must they be banned like cigarettes but we can't see or smell or even get a suggestion of marketing and by golly it is best that they are taxed immediately! </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">AND AND AND they will give your computer a VIRUS!!</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">Actually - LET'S JUST PANIC!!!!</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">I know it sounds all rather absurd, but remove all your knowledge and all the ins and outs that we know about. Ignore all the studies you have read, the programmes you have watched and experts you have listened to. We are not representative. Remove ALL that you know and the above is all you have been told. The media, the telly friendly experts, the BMA, the WHO, the CDC and the list goes on. They have all told you not to use e-cigarettes.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">So why on EARTH would you say to yourself,</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">'Well, I have a weeks worth of cig money here, do I blow it on an ecig that might melt my face or turn my kids into cocaine snorting animals and probably won't work anyway? Or do I just buy some cigs and try it another time.'</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">I think we all know what the answer is likely to be. So where does a medical e-cig fit into this? What would it do for someone in this position?</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">If they chose to, they could go to their Dr, get a (probably crappy) e-cig and suddenly you have proof of concept. They get the chance to say 'Oh wow this is utter pants but tell you what, I bet the ones they sell at the garage are better than this! Have you seen all the different flavours? Sod it, I'll try one!'</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">This ONLY works if there is a vibrant and exciting e-cig market for them to turn to, and turn to with confidence. The draw of being self sufficient and not reliant on the state for smoking support is one of the reasons vaping has taken off so quickly but that initial jump is still too much if you are risking a week or two with no tobacco at all if your purchase turns out to be all the things the media told you it would be. Why would you take that risk?</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">What this comes down to is choice. We fight for our right to choose but at the same time we abhor the idea of a medical e-cig. What if that is the only choice a smoker has? What if their choice is to take the support of the system cos that is what they want? It might only be a fraction of smokers but that fraction DO want structured state support. It is their choice to take it and use it. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">How can we talk about choice if we are deciding for them that they can't have that? What right do WE have to to take that decision for them? Do we get to dictate the grounds on which smokers choose their path to vaping? How is that the freedom to choose?</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">In the UK a med e-cig will not affect the consumer market at all. However, the consumer market does provide a bright and appealing option to the smoker that tries the med ecig and realises there is so much more to be had.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; line-height: 22.4px;">We run the risk of getting caught up in the anti-smoker mentality that was all the more obvious after the PHE report with 'How Very Dare They!'. Smokers dare because they have given so bloody much to the system in the first place and they have every right to ask for help back if they want it. If a med e-cig provides the leg up to the proper stuff, the grown up and fun stuff then who are we to decide they can't have it based on our own ideologies? </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">We have to be flexible, see the merit in things and not be bound by zealousness as so many we are up against are.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">Above all?</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">We don't define peoples choices. They are not ours to define.</span></div>
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Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-2805590734376813302015-07-13T23:55:00.001+01:002015-07-14T00:29:25.685+01:00I Hope I Shall Arrive Soon.Look at this! A blog! An actual blog from what can only be described as the single worst blogger in the related sphere given I have not done this for months.<br />
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So what could have driven me to get off my rear and put finger to key? Well, me. I thought it was time to say something about what it is like to be an advocate. An unpaid e-cig advocate. A volunteer that probably doesn't know when to stop and even if she did, wouldn't! A person perpetually on the brink of an eye-ball gouging, table throwing, running-through-the-streets-dressed-in-coloured-recycling-bags-claiming- to-be-batman-whilst-screaming-incoherently breakdown.<br />
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I am by no means alone in this. Although the details might be different, damn near all of us are in the same position.<br />
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I thought it was about time to talk about what it is like being an advocate. Not about the abuse we have had or the accusations of shillery and corruption. But what it is actually like being a normal human being (don't anyone DARE leave a comment containing the word 'lettuce'! Fergus - I am looking at you!) living a normal life (I am serious Fergus!) with either a job or a family, suffering with physical or mental illness, maybe supporting others that do. We are a varied bunch but the fact is, this advocacy business is on TOP of what we already do.<br />
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Last week and this weekend I was asked to do these things;<br />
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Attend the new APPG and speak on behalf of NNA and by extension, consumers. (This week)</div>
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Attend the launch of and speak at the new BSI industry standard written by ECITA with input and support from myself and a group of others (The Steering group). (This week)</div>
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Arrange a trip to an SSS near Manchester in order to support an advisor who wants to turn the SSS E-cig friendly and needs help to get everyone onside.</div>
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Support (ongoing) another PH professional who contacted me asking for help to deal with a high level colleague come round to vaping from a position that appears to be in-line with some of our most absolute favouritist Anti-Ecig Activists.</div>
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Attend and speak at a vape expo in another country.</div>
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Read and respond to more people than I can count who have concerns and questions and worries via email and Twitter. (Always)</div>
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Now, do not think for ONE SECOND that of all the advocates you know that I am the only one with a week like this. I am not. I can almost guarantee that virtually every one of them had a similar week, we just rarely talk about it. Partly cos we relish all the different challenges and partly as we do not want anyone to think they can't or shouldn't add any further pressure. I will close on this bit specifically.<br />
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So what about my life? That thing that happens 24 hours a day outside of e-cig related matters?<br />
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This week:<br />
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Monday -<br />
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Take youngest son to Dr's to discover he has tonsillitis and a stomach virus to go with the broken arm he got last week. He is off school.<br />
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Book train tickets to APPG and BSI launch event. Read confirmation emails and realise I have booked to go to London twice on the same day. All left till last minute as unsure I can leave youngest.<br />
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Tuesday -<br />
Get on train at 10:03<br />
Get off train at 13:44. Make way to Parliament.<br />
Get on train at 23.45<br />
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Wednesday -<br />
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Get off train at 6:45am<br />
Drive 40 minutes home,<br />
Organise small ppl for school - unknown if youngest well enough to go.<br />
Drive 40 minutes to eldest's school for 13:40 for meeting (unknown what is happening with smallest)<br />
Get back in time to pick up middle-sized at 15:15 in home village.<br />
Feed small ppl to get back to school for 17:00 for school play<br />
Attend school play at 18:00<br />
Take children home around 21:00.<br />
Drive to train station.<br />
Get on train at 23:09<br />
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Thursday -<br />
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Get off train at 06:30<br />
Make way to Standards Launch.<br />
Speak (give Katherine big hug knowing she knows just how I feel)<br />
Get on train at 14:06<br />
Get off train 18:06<br />
Drive home in time to read bedtime stories<br />
Wrap presents<br />
Make birthday cake till early hours<br />
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Friday -<br />
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Wake up swearing I am not making birthday cakes anymore<br />
Sing Happy Birthday to my middle-sized who will be 8, give presents.<br />
Sort monkeys for school<br />
Finish birthday cake<br />
Organise food for birthday visitors.<br />
Collect monkeys<br />
Do Birthday.<br />
Watch hours of cake-making labour be destroyed.<br />
Enjoy evening with family.<br />
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Saturday -<br />
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Start putting contingency plans in place for my inevitable breakdown.<br />
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So this week IS particularly troublesome, I can't deny that. But to some degree or other this is sort of normal. Add into the mix personal things like school runs, street dance and ballet classes for monkeys 2 and 3, football training and related activities for monkey 1, unfeasible levels of laundry, cooking, cleaning, PICKING STUFF UP!! OMFG I seem to spend my whole damn life picking stuff up! Does nobody else notice it? Is it just me? Does it exist in some alternate reality into which I only can see in order to bring it back to our world and find it a home?<br />
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I digress...excuse me whilst I take a calming breath or twenty...<br />
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My point is, it is the same for everyone, every advocate in every country. It would be easy to think that I have written this for sympathy or kudos, but you would be mistaken. I think this just needs to be said and it needs to be said because it explains why accusations of astroturf and shillery hurt so much. We are doing our very best and often at the expense of something in our own lives. I gave up waitressing to do freelance writing, which went well at first, but then a whole lot of personal stuff happened and new and interesting e-cig related things arose and as a result, I have not been able to focus on writing and find myself work. This is no-ones fault but my own.<br />
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So much like I can object to using women as ornaments at vape expos without being a militant feminist or suffering some crippling jealousy, I can tell you all this about being an advocate without wanting sympathy. I don't HAVE to do this. I could stop anytime I want...<br />
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The biggest reason I have held off saying all of this - and this is THE most important bit - is because I was worried about appearing vulnerable. But, <u>Do Not</u> think this is a plea to take the pressure off. <u>Do Not</u> think 'I won't ask Lorien or anyone else cos she wrote that blog'. I doubt any of us realised where this would end up, what it would involve, but I would not change a thing. I am proud of everything we have achieved and all that we have done. It is absolutely bloody amazing!<br />
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It is likely to be years before this is over and I suspect most of us will see it through to the end. I am so proud to have met the people I have, work with the ones I do and adore the friends I have made. I have gained so much and learned so much about myself. I have never felt more confident and capable but at the end of the day, we are all ordinary people in an extraordinary situation.<br />
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I guess this isn't really for the community, the blog, because I think you all know all of this. It is here for the people who demean and degrade our efforts.<br />
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So, now all of that has been said.....<br />
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<br />Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com16tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-37997414531751798102015-04-17T23:02:00.001+01:002015-04-18T09:45:12.805+01:00Public Health and The TractorYes it has been ages since I last wrote anything and yes I know that blogging requires more work than I have been putting in and YES I am sorry!<br />
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Anyway, what particular thing is it that has made me log in and start typing? Well, it is kinda mundane actually and starts with a thought I had whilst driving...what better premise for a blog?<br />
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As some of you may know, I live in Cornwall. Deepest...darkest...North Cornwall. Sparsely populated and riddled with a myriad of tiny, narrow and unfriendly roads without white lines and with a good many completely blind corners that appear quite without warning. This is also holiday-maker heaven; every school break the population of North Cornwall explodes with terrified drivers whose cars swell to at least twice the size on the journey down here which means none of them fit on our roads. Or so they think. The result of this is many 20 mile an hour journeys stuck behind some poor soul who thinks every tractor coming towards him is going to drive straight over his 4x4 which has never seen a muddy puddle, let alone left the tarmac. It also provokes a special kind of rage in locals who are forced to drive behind someone who positions themselves in the middle of the road, or worse, find themselves half way round one of our many blind corners facing some idiot who is driving in the middle of the lane with those 'this is the middle of the road' white lines under the very centre of his car!<br />
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I digress (that felt good though). One of the major problems we have down here on the roads are people who blindly follow their sat navs places that simply are not suitable for those who are incapable of putting their car into reverse and driving backwards a little bit. Not just holiday makers either, a quick Google search will bring up stories of lorry drivers wedging themselves between buildings in a tiny village they have tried to squeeze their massive bulk through. I once watched a coach beach itself on a hairpin bend as it had followed the sat nav down a road that it could not possibly make to the end. How we laughed as it sat there, its wheels spinning futilely in the air and its belly resting on the road, rocking slightly as all the fuming passengers disembarked. There was even a case of one lorry driver who, thanks to his unwavering faith in his digital direction dictator, found himself driving directly onto a beach!<br />
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ONTO A BEACH!<br />
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So, I was stuck behind a hapless fellow on the road to Bude (which is a 60mph road) who was pootling along at 40 mph whilst mesmerised by the little screen attached to his dashboard, and it struck me! Sat-navs! Actually that is not fair, it is not the sat-nav's fault - it is the drivers fault, they are entirely reliant on their sat-navs. SO reliant that they miss all the obvious signs around them that give them actual clues as to what is really going on. So distracted that they don't notice cyclists or bikers, where they are on the road, what the car in front is doing or even the fact that that sign says NO CARAVANS DOWN THIS ROAD!<br />
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What struck me is this; I was stuck behind Public Health!<br />
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Public Health and Tobacco Control are so completely and totally ignorant to what is going on around them because they cannot raise their eyes and just look! They are exactly like every single driver I have sat behind who is gripping the wheel, white knuckled, glancing nervously at the sat-nav whilst the beautiful Cornish countryside sweeps past unnoticed. They bicker with the person in the passenger seat who points out 'Uh...I think we just drove past the turning....oh, sorry, yes darling I know....we must have lost the GPS signal for a minute...' as somehow it is their fault for looking out of the window and seeing with their own eyes what is going on. They doubted the Sat-nav! How dare they!<br />
<br />
Every single I time I see the same tired and boring arguments about nicotine being as 'addictive as heroin', that nicotine use is going to create cocaine addled monsters out of our children, that this is all 'straight out of the tobacco playbook', oh and 'flavours are only there to ensnare The Children' I am seeing people who cannot think for themselves. Indoctrinated and utterly lacking in the ability to function without someone else telling them what to think.<br />
<br />
I do not have any sympathy for the drivers on these roads that make me late, double my journey times, cause tirades of expletives that make my children say 'Mum! You shouldn't swear' and worst of all, cause accidents every single year without fail. Blind people causing harm cos they are not looking where they are going!<br />
<br />
That is every single Dr, Researcher, Scientist, Sociologist, whatever, who point blank refuses to see that the real world, real living people around them are doing something that their studies are not and cannot and will not show. In ignoring us, You Are Causing Harm.<br />
<br />
And much like our white knuckled drivers, at some point that tractor IS going to drive right over your car...and we vapers will wave back at the crumpled remains of everything you thought you knew as we carry on our merry way. You know what else? There will be some of yours on board with us!<br />
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<br />Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com7tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-9578490083683653072015-01-14T01:50:00.000+00:002015-01-14T21:29:44.371+00:00A Lesson In Manners.Come in and sit down please. Mister Furlow this is not the place for chewing gum; in my bin please then sit! Settle down at the back there, I know we are not long back from the holidays but it is straight into work mode. Now, I thought today we could talk about internet safety. There has been a lot in the news lately about how people behave online. Can anyone give me an example please? No shouting out, Fergus, and I do not expect to hear that kind of language! Yes, thank you Stefan, trolling. That is exactly what I wanted to look at today.<br />
<br />
Let us start with the definition of an Internet Troll; I'll just pop it on the overhead projector here. Can you all see? Please do not make shadow rabbits with your hands Beki, thank you very much.<br />
<br />
And we shall begin.<br />
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<div class="vk_ans" style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: xx-large !important; font-weight: lighter !important; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<span data-dobid="hdw">troll</span><sup class="lr_dct_ent_hi" style="font-size: small; position: relative; top: -8px;">2</sup></div>
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<div class="lr_dct_ent_ph" style="font-size: large;">
<span class="lr_dct_ph">trəʊl,trɒl</span></div>
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<div class="lr_dct_sf_h" style="padding-top: 10px;">
<i>verb</i></div>
<ol class="lr_dct_sf_sens" style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 20px;">
<li style="border: 0px; line-height: 1.2; list-style: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><div class="lr_dct_sf_sen vk_txt" style="font-weight: lighter !important; padding-top: 10px;">
<div style="float: left;">
<strong>1</strong>.</div>
<div style="margin-left: 20px;">
<div data-dobid="dfn" style="display: inline;">
make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.</div>
<div class="vk_gy" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important;">
"if people are obviously trolling then I'll delete your posts and do my best to ban you"</div>
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</li>
<li style="border: 0px; line-height: 1.2; list-style: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><div class="lr_dct_sf_sen vk_txt" style="font-weight: lighter !important; padding-top: 10px;">
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<strong>2</strong>.</div>
<div style="margin-left: 20px;">
<div>
<div data-dobid="dfn" style="display: inline;">
carefully and systematically search an area for something.</div>
<div class="vk_gy" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important;">
"a group of companies <b>trolling for</b> partnership opportunities"</div>
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<li class="" data-mh="-1" style="border: 0px; line-height: 1.2; list-style: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><div class="lr_dct_sf_subsen" style="display: list-item; font-size: xx-small; list-style-type: disc; margin-left: 25px; padding-top: 5px;">
<div style="font-size: small;">
<div data-dobid="dfn" style="display: inline;">
fish by trailing a baited line along behind a boat.</div>
<div class="vk_gy" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important;">
verb: <b>troll</b>; 3rd person present: <b>trolls</b>; past tense: <b>trolled</b>; past participle:<b>trolled</b>; gerund or present participle: <b>trolling</b></div>
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"we <b>trolled for</b> mackerel"</div>
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<div class="lr_dct_sf_sen vk_txt" style="font-weight: lighter !important; padding-top: 10px;">
<i>noun</i></div>
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</li>
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<div>
<div class="vk_gy" data-mh="-1" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important;">
noun: <b>troll</b>; plural noun: <b>trolls</b></div>
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<li style="border: 0px; line-height: 1.2; list-style: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><div class="lr_dct_sf_sen vk_txt" style="font-weight: lighter !important; padding-top: 10px;">
<div style="float: left;">
<strong>1</strong>.</div>
<div style="margin-left: 20px;">
<div>
<div data-dobid="dfn" style="display: inline;">
a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting.</div>
<div class="vk_gy" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important;">
"one solution is to make a troll's postings invisible to the rest of community once they've been recognized"</div>
</div>
<div style="margin-left: -13px;">
<ul style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
<li class="" data-mh="-1" style="border: 0px; line-height: 1.2; list-style: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><div class="lr_dct_sf_subsen" style="display: list-item; font-size: xx-small; list-style-type: disc; margin-left: 25px; padding-top: 5px;">
<div style="font-size: small;">
<div data-dobid="dfn" style="display: inline;">
a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting.</div>
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</li>
</ul>
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<li style="border: 0px; line-height: 1.2; list-style: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><div class="lr_dct_sf_sen vk_txt" style="font-weight: lighter !important; padding-top: 10px;">
<div style="float: left;">
<strong>2</strong>.</div>
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<div data-dobid="dfn" style="display: inline;">
a line or bait used in trolling for fish.</div>
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</div>
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<br />
This is what we shall be talking about today; not those cute fluffy things from the 70's, Neil.<br />
<br />
Are we all clear? On we go then.<br />
<br />
As you can see, when we talk about internet trolls, we are talking about people who set out to deliberately upset and offend others. Provocative, as is stated on the whiteboard. I shall tell you a story about a well known sports commentator who particularly liked rugby, but hated football. One day, he tweeted 'Football supporters are all morons and thugs #footy'. This is was not very nice and seemed quite out of the blue. The football supporters were happily ignoring said commentator until one happened to notice the tweet whilst searching the #footy hashtag. So what happened next?<br />
<br />
No Joanne, they did NOT do that. Good grief girl, where do you get these things from?<br />
<br />
Well, one football supporter told another football supporter. 'What?!' says supporter #2, 'That is ridiculous, I am going to tweet him and ask him why he said that.'<br />
<br />
'Good idea' says supporter #1, 'I will too. I have never even spoken to him before and I'm a bit confused.'<br />
<br />
So off they went, and tweeted their questions at the offending commentator. Now, this does not go down very well.The commentator (herein known as C) is very cross at being questioned. He says that football has a long history of hooliganism and violence.<br />
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'Yes, but that is nothing to do with me' says #1<br />
<br />
'Quite,' retorts #2 'and football is changing; don't be so judgemental!'<br />
<br />
'NO' says C 'Look at you, wearing your footy shirts, You look just like those who rioted throughout the 80's.'<br />
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<br /></div>
<div>
C was starting to feel irked now.<br />
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'Hang on a minute mate, I think we have our wires crossed here. I like football, alright? But I'm not dangerous or violent,' a calm #1 replies.<br />
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'Yeah, how about we chat about this like adults?' says an increasingly irritated #2.<br />
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'No no NO! Look, a picture of a man in the street kicking another man. Wearing football shirts. It is quite clear!' C then blocked both supporters, before sending out another tweet about how vile and offensive Football supporters are and they are all ganging up on him. Poor him.<br />
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As you can imagine, #1 and #2 are more than a little put out at what just transpired, not to mention shocked. Football supporters have been making a real effort to change the image of the sport, but guys like this were obviously hung up on the old days. Whilst #1 and #2 discuss the situation, supporter #3 notices C's last tweet; shocked, he retweets it so that his followers can see. Now, most of #3's followers are football fans. They are not very happy about this, so like #1 and #2, they try to address the situation. A few minutes later, C, after being the recipient of a number of tweets ranging from questioning and reasonable to outright anger and offence, blocks everyone that has said anything about football supporters being 'OK actually'. Not content with this, C then trawls through their feeds to find other people that need blocking.<br />
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To make sure that all his followers understand how positively horrible football supporters are, C sends out a tweet along the lines of 'My god! These footy fans are aggressive. I hope Blatter is paying them well! #AstroTurf' .<br />
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Things start to get a bit heated in the Supporters group. They've all been blocked, but don't really understand why. It was C that tweeted something unpleasant, they reacted. Yes it might not all have been perfect but yeesh, what is that guys problem? Then some of them notice other commentators retweeting and favouriting C's last tweet. #1 and #2 are furious! They have no idea who these ppl are and think it highly unlikely any of them have ever SPOKEN to a footy fan, yet now they are showering C with sympathy and support. And what the hell has Blatter to do with it? None of them particularly like him ANYway. They just want to watch football!<br />
<br />
The supporters decided to keep an eye on C to see if they can figure out what the problem is. As time goes on, there are more and more tweets about them. Calling them all sorts of names. Screenshots of things they have said in conversation with one another. It is a bit frustrating, as the supporters cannot even contact C now, and hadn't been able to for ages. Then articles in the sports sections of news papers start to appear saying how awful supporters are - how vile and obviously paid for by Big Football.<br />
<br />
'But we are not! We have nothing to do with how football is run, we just love the sport! Why are you saying these things?'<br />
<br />
But it is all falling on deaf ears I am afraid, children. Well, kind of, C is still rooting through the supporters tweets; he then uses them to write more articles in papers, and then in secret sports magazines that only commentators can access and respond to.<br />
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
Oliver! Are you listening or are you passing notes to Neil? Face front!<br />
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I'm sorry to say that it just goes on and on like this. C continues to tweets inflammatory and dishonest things about football and it's supporters, calling them all sorts of names. Then C writes another article about how unreasonable football supporters (FS) are. The thing is, C is one of the old commentators; he has been around a long time and other commentators think he is just simply wonderful and is the reason they got into commentary themselves. Some of them ask who they need to block in case these football lunatics try to talk to them. Others start to tweet unpleasant things about FS and then are really really surprised when FS get rather cross with <i>them</i>. So they block them too. Even the ones that have never spoken a word about any of it. Well, you can't be too careful you see.<br />
<br />
'How are they doing it? Why am I blocked by this person, I have never even <i>heard</i> of them before?' Say FS.<br />
'There has to be a block list they are sharing!'<br />
'Sounds a bit paranoid though. Doesn't it?'<br />
<br />
It transpires that C had once been insulted by a footballer and had never quite gotten over it. Sorry what was that Sarah? What did he say? Well I am not sure it is important now as it wasn't a football supporter anyway. Speak up please Sarah...did he apologise for his mistake? Sadly no, no he didn't.<br />
<br />
So we come to the end of the story to find that C and his friends are spending time and money on researching football supporters while FS point out that this money needs to be put into finding ways of making football an even better and fairer game. And worse, because of all the terrible things C and his friends have said, some commentators who ARE trying to improve The Beautiful Game, are being refused time and money to do so, and are coming under investigation themselves as they chose to speak with the supporters. C and his friends, though, are getting lots and lots of money to research just how awfully awful a game football actually is.<br />
<br />
Unfortunately, in all of this, it was the modern football supporter than got labelled a troll. That really upset them, as I think it is clear to all of us who the troll was. Are you not sure? OK, one sec...<br />
<br />
....here we go, I've underlined the important bit...<br />
<br />
<span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-height: 15.6000003814697px;"><b><i><u> 1. make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.</u></i></b></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;"><span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: x-small; line-height: 15.6000003814697px;"><b><i><br /></i></b></span>
<span style="color: #666666; font-family: inherit; line-height: 15.6000003814697px;">So, DAVID PUT THAT AWAY, who do we think the title of troll <i>actually</i> belongs to?</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; color: #666666; font-family: inherit;"><span style="line-height: 15.6000003814697px;"><br /></span><span style="line-height: 15.6000003814697px;">Before you decide, I have a confession to make. That commentator did not really exist, of course he didn't. He would not have his job for very long if he did, and with good reason too.</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><span style="color: #666666; line-height: 15.6000003814697px;"><br /></span>
<span style="line-height: 15.6000003814697px;"><span style="color: #666666;">Oh but what....what is </span><a href="https://theconversation.com/why-i-block-trolls-on-twitter-36120" target="_blank"><span style="color: #9fc5e8;">this</span></a><span style="color: #666666;">? A man in Australia has written a whole article about internet trolls. It was an article about </span><a href="https://theconversation.com/with-a-little-help-from-his-friends-joe-cockers-early-death-35852" target="_blank"><span style="color: #9fc5e8;">another article</span></a><span style="color: #666666;"> about internet trolls also written by himself. These are written by a man called Simon Chapman TTT CD BBM JVC. Uh, well no Andy, they are not real qualifications, I am afraid I can't recall the real ones.</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #666666;"><span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><span style="line-height: 15.6000003814697px;"><br /></span></span>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><span style="line-height: 15.6000003814697px;">Now, can someone tell me anything that they spot in the comments? OK ok, not all at once but yes, a lot have been deleted haven't they. What else do you notice? Yes, Mr Chapman does indeed mention a block list, just like our football supporters thought their commentator had.</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #666666;"><span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><span style="line-height: 15.6000003814697px;"><br /></span></span>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><span style="line-height: 15.6000003814697px;">H</span></span><span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit; line-height: 15.6000003814697px;">e is very upset isn't he boys and girls. Yes Meg, In fact it is quite like my story, isn't it. Shall we have a look at some tweets and see how MUCH it is like my story? </span></span><br />
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<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MtXpRQQY_YE/VLWnuCLm39I/AAAAAAAAAZo/J5EDhTO5cMU/s1600/vid.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="color: #666666;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MtXpRQQY_YE/VLWnuCLm39I/AAAAAAAAAZo/J5EDhTO5cMU/s1600/vid.jpg" height="205" width="320" /></span></a></div>
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<span style="color: #666666; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: x-small;"><span style="background-color: white; line-height: 15.6000003814697px;"><br /></span></span><span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit; line-height: 15.6000003814697px;"><span id="goog_570250660" style="color: #666666;"></span><span id="goog_570250661" style="color: #666666;"></span><span style="color: #666666;">This tweet you see here was in response to Ms Jollye asking that Mr Chapman talk to the people he was being unpleasant about. That video you see there? That is of a </span><a href="http://video.perthnow.com.au/v/132218/Smoking-woman-distracts-during-Beattie-interview?c=News&p=1&nk=f2083836a6d3056a628c85a6cab68963" target="_blank"><span style="color: #9fc5e8;">news report</span></a><span style="color: #666666;"> that has a lady in the background and this is who he calling a 'winner'. No, it is not very nice is it, I agree.</span></span><br />
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<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zJk99J-IdK0/VLRjifuXr0I/AAAAAAAAAXk/MGJf2NH7dHY/s1600/Mac%2Bgen%2BChap.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="color: #666666;"><img border="0" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zJk99J-IdK0/VLRjifuXr0I/AAAAAAAAAXk/MGJf2NH7dHY/s1600/Mac%2Bgen%2BChap.jpg" height="160" width="320" /></span></a></div>
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<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Q7300iOQGM4/VLRjjhYfSfI/AAAAAAAAAYY/8SpHlBK6NXI/s1600/Screenshot_2014-09-22-15-20-03.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="color: #666666;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Q7300iOQGM4/VLRjjhYfSfI/AAAAAAAAAYY/8SpHlBK6NXI/s1600/Screenshot_2014-09-22-15-20-03.png" height="320" width="180" /></span></a></div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; color: #666666; font-family: inherit;"><span style="line-height: 15.6000003814697px;"><br /></span><span style="line-height: 15.6000003814697px;">Do you think that Mr Chapman had already blocked these Vaper people? Yes, he had. For a long time before this. So just like our football supporters, these Vapers were unable to respond or discuss these tweets with Mr Chapman.</span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #666666;">Now this is a particularly interesting one. What do you notice here in the tweet he is talking about? Yes, Sarah, his name is not in that tweet, so what does that mean? It means the only way he could have seen it was by watching these vapers whilst he had them blocked. I agree Joanne, it is very creepy. He did something very naughty here too. He took this tweet out of context, which if you remember, means he was deliberately trying to make it look like something else. In fact, @CaeruleanSea and @FergusMason1 were having a joke and Mr Mason was challenged to swear his anger out of his system. It was not directed at anyone in particular. In doing this, Mr Chapman was trying to discredit Ms Jollye so that people would not take the letter she had written seriously.</span><br />
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<span style="color: #666666;">I would like it if you did not tell your parents about the language in this tweet, but I feel it is part of an important lesson for you.</span><br />
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<span style="color: #666666;">Is Mr Chapman taking the micky out of ppl with mental health issues? Unfortunately I think he is and again he is trying to insult these vapers. I think this is a particularly nasty one and I feel it is best to move on to the next.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #666666;">I think this is fairly self explanatory, here is trying to pretend that these Vapers are not real people so all their feelings are just pretend. Do you see how somebody responds to say something negative about vaping? Indeed, David, just like the commentators friends did.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #666666;">These are some examples of other people insulting the Vapers, even though they have, too, blocked them with little to no interaction. You can see in the last tweet, they even start to attack their own, trying to shame them into not supporting vapers by calling them Astroturf, ie they are not real. A quick question; do you any of you think they have any evidence of these Vapers being fake? No? Ok, lets move on.</span><br />
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<span style="color: #666666;">Here is a funny one, you see Mr Collard there says something mean to Mr Chapman? Well, Mr Chapman is trying to use this to justify how he has treated Vapers. Unfortunately, Mr Chapman failed to realise that Mr Collard was, and still is, a smoker, not a vaper at all. Vapers did try to tell him this, but of course, they have no way of doing so.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #666666;">I have left this next tweet until last as I think it shows just how unpleasant Mr Chapman has become.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #666666;">Can anyone tell me what a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quisling" target="_blank">quisling</a> is? I will give you a hint, but this is your homework. It is to do with Hitler.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #666666;">So,what have we learned from all this? If this happened in this classroom, what would we call it? Bullying, yes. And if the bully refused to learn his behaviour was naughty? He would probably be taken out of school, yes Beki. No, Mr Chapman did not get told off. In fact, just like in our story, all his friends are joining in now. On second thoughts, I will let you see two more; these are very recent and they show perfectly that Mr Chapman has no intention of stopping his behaviour. Some might even say he is emboldened.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #666666;">Who wants to tell me who the troll is here then? OK OK not all at once, but I get the message. Mr Chapman is the troll as per the definition.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #666666;">So what should we do with Mr Chapman, David? Very wise, we should ignore him. Lorien, he might be a silly little man but I'd like you not to shout out. When we go onto the internet, we must behave as we would in this classroom, or in a job. It is sad that some adults do not understand this but then maybe they are just as mean and unpleasant in real life? I agree with you Peter, I would not like to be friends with them either. We all know about bullies and how easy it is for weak people to try and be their friend. Bullies want attention, it makes them feel special.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #666666;">OK, well done class. Thank you for listening so well. Just remember these tweets as they might come in handy in the future. There is the bell, off to the playground with you all. CHRISTIE AND PUDDLECOTE! I can see what you have got there and we talked about the hamster and the slide last year didn't we. Oh I am sure he just loves it but back in the cage please. Out out out, all of you!</span></div>
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Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com25tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-81486538870837741412014-12-15T14:01:00.000+00:002015-01-01T18:47:22.191+00:00Voices From The Street. So, I spent some time wondering how best to deal with what has happened this week. What is the best thing to do? How should I react? Should I write a letter? Should I throw all my toys out of the pram? Should I scream and scream and scream until I get what I want (it didn't work for the Gin Advent Calendar!)?<br>
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What am I talking about? Well, a little while ago I <a href="http://www.theindefatigablefrog.blogspot.co.uk/2014_10_01_archive.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: #9fc5e8;">wrote</span></a> to the Lancet after reading yet another defence of John Ashton. My letter was abridged (with consultation) and then <a href="http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61985-1/fulltext" target="_blank"><span style="color: #9fc5e8;">published</span></a>. "YAY" we all said, "haven't we done well". Well, no, it seems.<br>
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This week we saw a response to my letter. I admit to being surprised, especially as to the people that chose to respond. Profs Martin McKee, Simon Chapman, Stanton Glantz and Mike Daube. I was even more surprised at the content of their response.<br>
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But first, I feel it is important I set out my conflicts of interest, being as these seem to be under question for all of us, all of the time.<br>
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COI -<br>
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My name is Lorien Faenor (stfu) Jollye. I am 36 years old, being born on the 30th day of the 6th month in the year 1978.<br>
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Between Easter and the end of October I am a waitress in a restaurant in a North Cornwall fishing village. The rest of the year I am just skint. All the time, I am a mother of three boys aged 13, 7 and 5. I have a (vaping, ex-smoker) husband, ancient and smelly border collie called Ash, and even more ancienter and smellier, one eyed cat called Raistlin.<br>
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To my knowledge, none of these are involved with the tobacco, e-cig or pharmaceutical industry. (Although I will say, my 7yo is seriously smart and sometimes I would not put anything past him!) I have been to various conferences, to which my travel and hotel (if needed) has been paid for by the organising body or by ECCA/NNA. None of this has been tobacco money. I have never benefited financially, in fact, these things ALWAYS cost me personally, because that gin on the sleeper train does not come for free (sadly) and neither does any food outside of the conference itself. There is a word for those expenses but I don't even know what it is, as I have never claimed it.<br>
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Incredibly, although that particular COI might be lengthy and unnecessary, the authors of the response letter were able to claim no conflicts whatsoever. Amazing.<br>
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I digress.<br>
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There are important points raised in this letter and I would like any reader of this to click this <a href="http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)62366-7/fulltext" target="_blank"><span style="color: #9fc5e8;">link</span></a>, and familiarise yourself with it's content.<br>
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All done? Excellent.<br>
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So why am I not responding to the article via the Lancet? A few reasons actually, A) I would be restricted to 300 words and that is nigh on impossible, B) I don't actually think the editor of the Lancet would allow me the space again and C) this needs to come off of social media and journals and into the real world. So I am going to try and make that happen instead.<br>
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Dear Professors Mckee, Chapman, Glantz and Daube,<br>
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Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedules to respond to my letter in the Lancet. I am almost flattered that you felt moved enough to write a reply. There are a few things I would like to address. Firstly, it is important to understand that I refer only to 'a part' of public health and tobacco control. I have learnt, in the past two years, that it makes no sense to write people off from the start. Whatever it is that they start by saying, is not enough to say 'well that's THAT then, shan't bother with THEM anymore'. As such, there are a good many in your fields of expertise who we are comfortable talking with and they with us. Even more important to note, is that we do not always see eye to eye with these people, but we do respect the ability to think outside of the well constructed box they have been existing in for most of their working lives.<br>
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Social media. Oh it is a funny thing isn't it. I admit to being relatively new to it myself, having only got involved in it again because of my advocacy. It allows instant reactions and responses. Sometimes, those responses are raw and unedited. It has certainly allowed us to talk to one another freely and openly. You could say that many of us wear our hearts on our sleeves when it comes to Twitter. As a result of this, I understand that you have been the recipients of many unadulterated reactions to things you might have said or written. In relation to this, I would like to tell you about something that happened to me in my old job, working behind a bar.<br>
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I have worked behind bars or as a waitress since I was about 15, so I am well versed with how people can behave when they are drunk or in groups. I am quite hardened to it in fact. However, on one occasion a few years ago, I was behind the bar by myself, on a friday afternoon as the 'just finished work, not going home yet' brigade came in. Three delightful fellows were sat at the bar, quite merry from their consumption of lager, when they started to make crude comments at me. Now, I am used to this, it comes with the territory of bar work. I deal with it, I move on. Except this time it was aggressive and threatening. They were making demands of me and were leaning over the bar to grab at my breasts. I genuinely felt threatened. In the end, I walked out from the bar into the adjoining corridor beside the hotel reception area (leaving the bar unmanned) and very loudly stated that in no uncertain terms was I serving those 'f*cking C*nts' and that I'd had enough. (Little did I know that a well to-do, diminutive old lady in reception, heard every word of my tirade at the bar manager and very sweetly said 'no dear and you shouldn't have to!'). However, to this date, I have managed to make and maintain many relationships with men, without tarring and feathering them based on the behaviour of these morons.<br>
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Now, I have just written that out and realised it does not work as an analogy as THOSE 'men' were out of order, in any world. Although you might not like a lot of what is said to you on social media, these are just the raw reactions of human beings. People who genuinely believe in what they are talking about and are very frustrated. I cannot control how people react, nor what they say or do. Even what pictures they send to you, (I should say at this point I have NO idea about any 'noose' picture). I understand if you might object to an individual or two, but however uncomfortable it makes you, we are the public. It is as simple as that. If we are speaking to you, then it would probably be wise to listen. Certainly you would call me churlish if my extreme example above caused me to ignore all men, forever. You would be right too. I know it is hard to get over being insulted sometimes, but I would ask you to work on it, as there are dividends to be paid. Paid, being something none of the people who are tweeting you are.<br>
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Indeed there was an event held on the Tobacco Endgame at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, hosted by one of yourselves. Indeed I did not attend, largely as it was not about e-cigs, after all, I am not fighting the tobacco companies (frankly I couldn't care less about them other than feel contempt for their behaviour in trying to restrict the market to the e-cigs they sell). However, three friends of mine did. I am confused by the accusations of nasty tweets from the event, and I would point you to <a href="http://therandomvamper.wordpress.com/2014/12/12/martin-mckee-lying-troll/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">this</span></a> blog which, handily, has the tweets from the two people whose phones were working. Now, I am not a member of Public Health or Tobacco control, but my assumption would be that you have rather thicker skins than I do, what with having more criticisms leveled at you than I am ever likely to experience. I'm not wholly sure that these tweets fit in with what you imply. Maybe there are some I missed? I shall say though, that anyone involved in advocacy of any description, is reasonable enough to know that hijacking a talk that ISN'T about their subject matter would be a little childish, silly and impolite. However, the E-cigarette summit has been held for the past two years at the Royal Society and I admit to having seen none of you there. Nor did I see you at the Global Forum on Nicotine in Warsaw. For that matter, I don't think you were at UKNSCC in June. I did see one of your number at the PHE e-cig event earlier in the year, but the attendee seemed distracted by attacking Anne McNeill than interacting with us. An informative day nonetheless.<br>
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More and more there are vapers attending many PH and TC events and we would dearly like to see you there, your presence has been sadly lacking until now. In fact, there will be a second Global Forum on Nicotine in June next year, it would be a great opportunity to engage with both sides of the argument and have a natter with those whose opinions differ from yours. As many others in PH and TC (even politics) will tell you, there is nothing to fear and everything to gain. Most importantly, we do not bite :)<br>
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If I may be so bold, there are many of us who would like to sit with you in a given place and talk this situation through. I know this offer has been made before, but I understand that it might have been lost in all the other requests from other groups involved in harm reduction. So let me take a moment to ask you again; Would you make time to sit with any of us and chew over the cud before it loses its flavour and this opportunity is lost to all?<br>
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My penultimate point is that I must thank you for your recognition of the impact of our 'campaign', though I fear it is far less organised than you think it is. Unfortunately, I think the situation for the average smoker is now less clear than it has ever been. Indeed, it would appear that many now perceive vaping to be as, if not more (10x more!) dangerous than smoking. I feel sure that if nothing else, we can agree that this is a tragedy for smokers and their friends and family, if people who were interested in switching have now decided against it and are continuing to smoke instead. Please forgive me for assuming on your part, but I am certain that this is not something you are happy to see happening. I understand that the health of the public is paramount to you, and the chance for so many to improve it with such a small change can only be something you have dreamed of your entire professional lives.<br>
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Finally, yes the debate has moved on and this is something that should be celebrated. It is widely acknowledged that the current measures are not reaching smokers as frankly, they are not interested. How wonderful indeed then, that something has appeared that smokers ARE interested in and is not costing the state a single penny. How best to proceed? Who knows, but certainly engaging with those who understand, as smokers, what this means would be the very best place to start.<br>
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Thank you again for your reply, and I look forward to hearing from you with details on how this discussion can be continued in a constructive and adult manner.<br>
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Sincerely,<br>
Lorien Jollye.<br>
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Thus ends my response, I shall email a link directly to Messrs McKee, Chapman, Glantz and Daube, thanks to their emails being available <a href="http://www.redheadfullofsteam.com/stop-wait-a-minute-mr-postman/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #9fc5e8;">here</span></a>.<br>
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Now, let's wait and see what happens next.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>UPDATE 23/12/14: </div><div><br></div><div>You will all be surprised to learn I have heard nothing & no invitation to meet has been forthcoming. </div><div><br></div><div>UPDATE 1/1/15</div><div><br></div><div>Starting as I assume they will continue throughout 2015, there has been no reply. </div><div>
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Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com14tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-4677759064458642892014-12-02T23:08:00.001+00:002014-12-03T09:10:23.557+00:00The Trouble With BubblesSomething has been bugging me for a while and I have been meaning to sit and write about it for as long. What do I want from all of this? What do I hope the outcome will be? What do I hope to achieve?<br>
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I say "I" in those questions because I can only speak for myself with absolute certainty, but I know there are others who think the same way. I hope this blog makes you ask yourself the same question. It is amazing how you assume you know your own answers, but sometimes it is worth thinking things through just to make sure. It also helps to keep you on track with your message and the things you say. All shall become clear...<br>
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Firstly, my questions do not have anything to do with "what legislation do we want?" or "what do we want vaping to look like in 5 years?", although they are very valid questions, it is not what this is about. I wanted to know what effect I want our movement to have on society, namely Public Health and Tobacco Control, and it's attitude towards smokers.Whether you like it or not, or even realise it, what we are trying to do has far wider implications than just whether or not we can vape in the pub. It is more than whether we are taxed for our habit or whether teens are taking up e-cigs in huge numbers (one day I WILL get round to writing my thoughts on teens and e-cigs!).<br>
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Put all those things aside for a second and think of it like this - if we get PH and TC to acknowledge e-cigs and vaping, what does this mean?<br>
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It is no secret that I have a big issue with the way smokers are treated by these two groups at the moment. Not all of it, but certainly a large part of it. I resent and reject the bullying and the attacks. I despise the social engineering that has turned the non-smoker and ex-smoker against those that still smoke. I hate it with every fibre of my being. However, does that mean I wish to see the abolition of tax funded support for smokers who want guidance and advice? No, actually it doesn't. I know this might come as a surprise to some, so let me explain why.<br>
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Many people reading this blog will be the smokers or vapers that did not really want help in a structured sense. Many of you will have tried it and ultimately "failed", for many reasons. Overall, only about 8% of smokers actually attend cessation services at all. Do I think they are value for money when our NHS is about to crumble into the ocean? No I do not. HOWEVER, smokers have paid more than enough into the system to have any damn service they want, fully funded. To my mind, if even only a tiny fraction of smokers WANT the support an SSS offers, then they should be able to have it. So do I LIKE the SSS? No. No I do not. Why? Ha, let's have a looksie shall we?<br>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-66J6E5bkt4w/VH0AtssuPwI/AAAAAAAAAUY/RSeFEPE3wnM/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-35-33.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-66J6E5bkt4w/VH0AtssuPwI/AAAAAAAAAUY/RSeFEPE3wnM/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-35-33.jpg" height="184" width="320"></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Bit of playground bully banter...</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pVEydvMFaV4/VH0Auco9NlI/AAAAAAAAATg/3fGW0rXxJ5Y/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-40-45.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pVEydvMFaV4/VH0Auco9NlI/AAAAAAAAATg/3fGW0rXxJ5Y/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-40-45.jpg" height="234" width="320"></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Just in case you hadn't heard this stuff, let us ram it down your throat some more.</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eLqxTAEN1lU/VH0AukllWUI/AAAAAAAAATo/KwCPoBQ-IDI/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-42-34.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eLqxTAEN1lU/VH0AukllWUI/AAAAAAAAATo/KwCPoBQ-IDI/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-42-34.jpg" height="320" width="249"></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Oh you grim, dirty smokers, we can see you with your discoloured digits. The badge of shame you must carry.</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q75Txy9yhX4/VH0AusLC8oI/AAAAAAAAATw/4vMvgBO7aio/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-43-04.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q75Txy9yhX4/VH0AusLC8oI/AAAAAAAAATw/4vMvgBO7aio/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-43-04.jpg" height="320" width="220"></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Oh look how ugly you all are. You stink too! Did we mention that already?</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YmwvSc9Je9M/VH0AvELu-JI/AAAAAAAAAT0/k6JIv_0DTCc/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-43-41.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YmwvSc9Je9M/VH0AvELu-JI/AAAAAAAAAT0/k6JIv_0DTCc/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-43-41.jpg" height="231" width="320"></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Well just in case we didn't. You stink.</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-21G6t-PiWaE/VH0AvmDWTeI/AAAAAAAAAT8/p-maMcgs0wE/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-44-16.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-21G6t-PiWaE/VH0AvmDWTeI/AAAAAAAAAT8/p-maMcgs0wE/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-44-16.jpg" height="320" width="209"></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">And you're ugly.</td></tr>
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Ok ok, so maybe I should have trawled other SSS twitter accounts to balance it out a bit, but a) why bother when these guys give so freely with their nastiness and b) I <i>couldn't</i> be bothered, we all know there are many that work in the same way. Oh oh oh wait, I forgot my personal favourite, sadly deleted, but preserved for all posterity by the wonder that is "screenshot",<br>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vD7g1ex4_O8/VH0AtgjZ_BI/AAAAAAAAATY/00NimLYnat0/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-35-50.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vD7g1ex4_O8/VH0AtgjZ_BI/AAAAAAAAATY/00NimLYnat0/s1600/Screenshot_2014-12-01-22-35-50.jpg" height="141" width="320"></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">I have nothing.</td></tr>
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Before we move on, I follow a few of these accounts on twitter and there ARE exceptions, services that are (largely) respectful and non threatening. They avoid using the Q word and never resort to the above tactics. They come across as welcoming and inclusive. What I imagine the word "support" to mean. "We'd like to help" rather than "You are such a hopeless, foul mess that you NEED our help". Had I not spent time with and learned from Louise Ross, put aside some of my own prejudices and actually listened, I would not have noticed the difference. It has definitely forced me to look at the potential of SSS in a new light. Make no mistake though, at the moment, most of them are miserable bloody failures and a lot of these people have no idea what they have been a part of or what is happening to smokers on the ground.<br>
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Anyway, these examples got me thinking, would we tolerate this - </div>
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No we wouldn't, of course we wouldn't. Neither would we if these were drug support services. Please don't think for a second that I think smoking, alcoholism or drug addiction are comparable, I don't, but these services put them in the same bracket from a PH point of view. So, I asked Twitter for some drug and alcohol accounts (UK based) that do offer these services so I could compare. I don't really want to add lots of pictures here because somehow it feels disrespectful, but none of them use the same tactics as most of the smoking cessation ones do. Why? I am guessing, that at some point, people realised that bullying is NOT how you reach out to your target audience. It is not how you create a safe environment for those who choose to come to you. It is NOT how you behave if you are building a service to genuinely help people, not use it as an excuse to spread more hate and distaste throughout the public. </div>
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Winnie the Pooh and Piglet did not spend years teaching the friends and family of the Heffalump to despise him, till eventually his own children dragged him to the hole WtP and P had dug and pushed him in kicking and screaming because they decided he wanted honey! No, a hole was dug, the honey placed at the bottom and if the Heffalump wanted it, he could go in and get it; if not, he carried on his merry way to find honey in his own sweet time. If he wanted it at all.</div>
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Now, I know there are going to be quite a few who have got to this point and are positively bellowing at the screen "WE KNOW THIS!! We have been saying it for YEARS!!". Yes, yes I know. Just let me finish...</div>
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So where do e-cigs fit into all this? Well, they have proved one thing. One simple thing. The fact that so many are using them, without any pressure, without any bullying proves that bullying does not work. Again, yes, we know this, you can stop swearing at the screen now!</div>
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Until e-cigs really kicked off, Tobacco Control and Public Health lived in a little bubble. No one really questioned them, no one held them accountable. There wasn't a product that would force the situation like this has. Smokers did not have a genuine choice. You smoked, or you were medicated. If you tried to Q and didn't succeed, you were a failure. You would have to tell all your friends and family that you were a miserable bloody failure, again. Shamefaced and humiliated, full of promises of "next time". Never really being allowed to say "You know what, I like this thank you very much". There wasn't anything to replace it with. The Now is a very different place.</div>
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If TC and PH accept e-cigarettes, if SSS country-wide are allowed to sell the concept of vaping to smokers that walk through their doors, if the stigma is removed from nicotine and the stupid comparisons to drug addicts, what does that mean? It means that everything has to change. Everything. You cannot embrace e-cigs and harm reduction for smokers whilst continuing on the same path. We are going to get to a point where they are going to have to make it clear. Are they guided by the health of smokers? Or are they guided by pure, unadulterated, all consuming loathing of the tobacco industry? As more and more data comes in and we can compare countries that have and have not banned or restricted vaping, their position gets more and more difficult.<br>
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Am I being overly optimistic? Possibly. But as we watch bans and hysteria across the planet, in the UK we are doing alright! Glantz called us an experiment, and it is one of the few things he has been right about.<br>
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So here is the thing, the trouble with bubbles is that, eventually, they burst. It is my sincere hope that it is not a pin, but an e-cig that bursts this one. What a wonderful side effect to come from this battle we are fighting.<br>
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Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com6tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-78954804060095698752014-10-31T20:21:00.001+00:002014-12-23T17:47:35.094+00:00Clipped, but published.<div dir="ltr">
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="color: #222222;">The reason I am blogging this is not for the same reason as the </span><a href="http://www.theindefatigablefrog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/below-are-responses-written-to.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">BMJ</span> </a><span style="color: #222222;">letter entry. This time, my letter has been published in the Lancet, albeit abridged. That is why I wanted to put up the complete text that I sent. The shorter, published, version can be found </span><span style="color: #6fa8dc;"><a href="http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61985-1/fulltext" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">here</span></a>.</span></span></span></div>
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I should say that the editing was not done without my input and they were very patient and helpful.<br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">What a peculiar situation I find myself in. At the end of 2012, not long after starting vaping after 23yrs of smoking, I realised that things were being grossly misunderstood about what ecigs could offer to smokers. Very naively I, and others, thought we could explain to politicians & Public Health where they were going wrong with what the TPD was trying to achieve. Within months, we learnt what 'AstroTurf' meant, as an Irish MEP informed the press that this is what we were. Why? Because we knew too much.</span></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">I was shocked! It seemed so obvious that we were normal people trying to dispel fears & misconceptions with experience & knowledge. Things have gotten significantly worse since then. We have struggled to get the ear of the very people who are advising Government, WHO & the public. We have been insulted or ignored, often both, and in a shockingly aggressive way. And why? I genuinely could not say. We are not an organised group, we are not funded, we act as individuals but have the same cause. The sense of frustration is palpable among us & I for one am horrified by the accusations of being shills & stooges. We are told our accounts are not real, our stories are fake. No matter how polite or constructive we are, some of the most influential & media savvy in PH will instantly bemoan the 'trolling' they are having to endure, which closes doors to people we have never even spoken to. </span></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />When finally we had enough of the bullying & untruths from articles written behind paywalls, public comments about us & at us on social media, we complain to an authority about the extreme behaviour we experienced on Twitter. We are informed of the complaints procedure & told to wait 30 days for a resolution. Then we watch while elements of Public Health stepped up what feels like a campaign to humiliate us further in blaming us for the behaviour of their peers. More articles, more opinion pieces appear. Somehow, we deserved the insults, we bought it upon ourselves. We are unreasonable & silly for expecting to have a say in what's happening with our lives. Decisions are being made about us, but definitely without us.</span></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">To finally see the Faculty of Public Health support their president John Ashton, before conclusion of the investigation, without even being asked to further explain our experience is disgusting. It would appear most of you are not even aware of what happened. I ask you all to reflect deeply on who it is you represent, who you are charged with protecting. Well it's me, and millions of others like me, yet you insulted & ignored me, then when I complained you blamed me.</span></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">UPDATE - Thanks to four particularly vocal Anti E-cig Activists responding to my letter, I have written a second letter, <a href="http://theindefatigablefrog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/so-i-spent-some-time-wondering-how-best.html" target="_blank">here</a>. </span></span></div>
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Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-10731606895364137142014-10-10T13:30:00.000+01:002014-10-10T14:29:35.521+01:00The Right To Reply: or not, as it happens. <div class="MsoNormal">
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">Below are responses written to the tenaci<span style="font-family: inherit;">ous, indefatigable even, Martin McKee who has penned yet <a href="http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g6006.full?ijkey=j4BwzZMzcpzd3EB&keytype=ref" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">another</span></a> scathing, sneering and downright offensive attack on those that have the bare faced cheek to disagree with him. How irritating it must be to know that there are folk that keep pointing out that what you spout to the media is complete and utter </span>nonsense. Seemingly he has nothing better to d....what was that? Ebola you say?</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">I fail to understand why journals like the BMJ are giving space to unsubstantiated accusations on members of the public. It is also infuriating beyond WORDS to see the sycophants on Twitter, blindly retweeting McKee's article without question of its validity. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">Anyway, these have been submitted to the BMJ in the correct manner, and only appear here as the journal in question has seen fit to disallow these comments about not being allowed to.. Uh.. Comment...so.. yeah.. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">Submitted by me on 9/10/14</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">Almost a year to the day<span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span style="color: #6fa8dc; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; line-height: 16.8666667938232px;">[<a href="http://oxle.com/topic.asp?tid=6459" target="_blank">1</a>]</span></span></span>, here I am writing to defend myself and other honest vapers from the same inflammatory outpourings from the same people. What has been learned in that time by those in the very elite of Public Health? Sadly, it appears to be nothing. For the second day in a row, we are subjected to yet another unsubstantiated and unwarranted attack. These continuous and relentless accusations emanating from the upper echelons of those charged with the protection of our health, ceased to be a curiosity a long time ago. We have tried, relentlessly yes, to talk to and deal with the very people who proclaim to all that will listen that we are either Trolls (the definition<span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span style="color: #6fa8dc; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; line-height: 16.8666667938232px;">[<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)" target="_blank">2</a>]</span></span></span> of which does not actually apply here) or paid industry stooges (be that Tobacco or E-cig). Now we have the added definitions of ‘<span style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial;">extreme libertarians’ or ‘deeply troubled individuals’.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #eeeeee; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial;">Let me be clear. I am not a paid stooge for ANY industry nor am I a Troll. I say this also for the people that I speak to on a daily basis. I would not even call myself a libertarian let alone an extreme one, though I fail to see why that would be an issue; indeed Mckee rather eloquently made the case for them himself. Am I a troubled individual? Well, yes actually, but certainly not in the ‘unhinged’ manner which Martin implies. I am troubled by the fact that no matter what we do, what we say, we are totally unable to defend against these accusations and still they persist. In fact, given how often we have tried to refute them, I consider them now to be nothing more than lies, constructed in order to make e-cig advocates so very toxic that we are as likely to be spoken to as a tobacco industry member. I am troubled because far from this idea that the use of the ‘block’ button being as a RESULT of contact we have made, it has often been used BEFORE we have been able to say a word. In fact, the author of this smear piece has been un-contactable for more than a year. As have some of the people I expect to see respond to this article. Yet somehow we are deemed to still be attacking them (challenging their opinion or asking questions), to such a degree that it warrants repeated opinion pieces being published, often behind paywalls so that we are unable to see.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #eeeeee; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #eeeeee; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; font-family: inherit;">I am troubled as this feels like we are being bullied by people who are untouchable and unreachable yet have absolute authority and the assumed respect of their peers, the media and the public. What are we, unpaid volunteer advocates or lay vapers, supposed to do in the face of this adversity<span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; color: #6fa8dc; line-height: 16.8666667938232px;">[<a href="http://www.theindefatigablefrog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/the-indefatigable-frog-or-why-this-wont.html" target="_blank">3</a>]</span></span></span>? If there is indeed proof of astroturfing, then I strongly and passionately request that this be made public immediately as we would be as concerned and upset (if not more) as Martin McKee and his ilk are. As yet, despite repeated requests for this evidence, we have seen nothing.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #eeeeee; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #eeeeee; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; font-family: inherit;">This debacle is serving only to muddy the waters, delay sensible regulation and, worse, create fear and uncertainty in smokers who would otherwise have chosen harm reduction as their route out of tobacco. In truth, the last of these things is the one that should cause the most consternation in anyone who is genuinely interested in the health and wellbeing of smokers. The greatest irony being that the entire movement is in danger of being handed <u>to</u> the tobacco industry through the fear of their involvement in, what appears to be, the least effective part of the market. In the long run, the attention being paid to unjustified scrutiny of us e-cig users, unsupported theories of gateways and gross lack of understanding of the role of flavours, will make cannon fodder of smokers in your war against the tobacco industry. A war we want no part of. Whilst you gaze at your navels contemplating hypothetical fears, millions of smokers have made the decision themselves to choose harm reduction. </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #eeeeee; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #eeeeee; background-image: initial; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-size: initial; font-family: inherit;">The big question is; how many<span style="color: #e06666;"> <i>didn’t</i></span> as a result of this relentless scaremongering?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">
</span>
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<hr align="left" size="1" width="33%" />
<a href="file:///C:/Users/Home/Documents/Mckee%20-%20Again.docx#_ftnref1" name="_ftn1" style="font-family: inherit;" title=""><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span style="line-height: 15.3333320617676px;">[1]</span></span></span></a><span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"> Full response to the first McKee BMJ article 27.9.13 </span><a href="http://oxle.com/topic.asp?tid=6459" style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">http://oxle.com/topic.asp?tid=6459</span></a><br />
<div id="ftn2">
<div class="MsoFootnoteText">
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><a href="file:///C:/Users/Home/Documents/Mckee%20-%20Again.docx#_ftnref2" name="_ftn2" title=""><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span style="line-height: 15.3333320617676px;">[2]</span></span></span></a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div id="ftn3">
<div class="MsoFootnoteText">
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><a href="file:///C:/Users/Home/Documents/Mckee%20-%20Again.docx#_ftnref3" name="_ftn3" title=""><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span style="line-height: 15.3333320617676px;">[3]</span></span></span></a> Further reading on why Vapers are angry <span style="color: #6fa8dc;"><a href="http://www.theindefatigablefrog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/the-indefatigable-frog-or-why-this-wont.html"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">http://www.theindefatigablefrog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/the-indefatigable-frog-or-why-this-wont.html</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoFootnoteText">
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">Submitted by Sarah Jakes on the 8/10/14</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoFootnoteText">
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">This is the second article <span style="color: #6fa8dc;">[<a href="http://pmj.bmj.com/content/early/2014/10/07/postgradmedj-2014-133029.extract" target="_blank">1</a>]</span> I have read today in which McKee attempts to conflate the e-cigarette industry, libertarian bloggers and angry e-cigarette consumers (vapers) in an attempt to paint the latter group as an astroturf organisation in the pay of either big tobacco or big vapour, which of course to his mind are one and the same thing. Is it any wonder that people who do not have the luxury of being published in prestigious journals such as this get even more angry when being maligned in one?</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">Either McKee does not understand the public he purports to protect or his comments are disingenuous in the extreme. I know that McKee has read Clive Bates' blog article entitled 'Memo to public health grandees: vaping, vapers and you' <span style="color: #6fa8dc;">[<a href="http://www.clivebates.com/?p=2391" target="_blank">2</a>] </span>which attracted 111 positive comments from consumers and is the most read and shared article on the Counterfactual site. I personally asked McKee to read that article because Bates has absolutely nailed the thoughts and feelings of vapers on the head, as is evident from the comments. My request to McKee to read it was a genuine attempt to create some understanding between our two sides. He confirmed that he'd read it, but the message appears to have fallen on deaf ears. </span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">McKee is completely entrenched and out of touch. He is of course free to disagree with Bates' article, but cannot deny the fact that it has the widespread support of the very people who are its subject. McKee has himself researched a member of the public and indeed uncovered the shocking fact that one Twitter user (who uses his own name and very colourful language) is a freelance writer who sometimes gets paid to write positive articles about e-cigarettes. If he'd researched further he may also have found that this is common knowledge, as is the fact that the person is a British ex soldier with several tours of duty under his belt, which probably explains the liberal use of creative profanities. One, sometimes foul mouthed, squaddie with a genuinely held belief that public health will kill people doth not an astroturf lobby make.</span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">There appears to be a concerted effort by some in public health to deliberately make false associations between a genuine grass roots consumer campaign and organisations with commercial interests, the more malign the better. This of course serves two purposes, firstly, it undermines the voice and views of the public by instilling the false belief that their views are paid for rather than their own. Secondly, it allows those in public health who are apparently unable to control their own behaviour to keep their jobs due to "mitigating circumstances" - those circumstances presumably being that they were baited into calling members of the public "c**ts" and "onanists" by industry shills with agendas <span style="color: #6fa8dc;">[<a href="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/article4200758.ece" target="_blank">3</a>]</span>. </span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">One thing is for sure - if McKee and others continue to provoke vapers with false accusations whilst failing to engage with them on the issues which are important to them, the relationship between the two sides is only going to get worse, and PH will only have themselves to blame. If your job is public health and you find that the public are angry with you then you really should be asking yourself a question - and here's a clue - it's not "who is paying them".</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">[1] Martin McKee - Peering through the Smokescreen <a href="http://pmj.bmj.com/content/early/2014/10/07/postgradmedj-2014-133029.extract" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">http://pmj.bmj.<wbr></wbr>com/content/early/2014/10/07/<wbr></wbr>postgradmedj-2014-133029.<wbr></wbr>extract</span></a></span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">[2] Clive Bates - The Counterfactual - 'Memo to public health grandees: vaping, vapers and you' <a href="http://www.clivebates.com/?p=2391" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">http://www.clivebates.<wbr></wbr>com/?p=2391</span></a></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">[3] The Times - E-Cigarette debate Heats up in online War of Words <a href="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/article4200758.ece" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">http://www.thetimes.co.<wbr></wbr>uk/tto/science/article4200758.<wbr></wbr>ece</span></a></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div>
<div>
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee; font-family: inherit;">Statement from the Faculty of Public Health (now removed from the site): "The Board has registered its strong disapproval of Professor Ashton’s comments, whilst noting the mitigating circumstances. The Board also agreed that Professor Ashton should continue in his role as President and has given clear direction on the necessary steps to support his return"</span></div>
</div>
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Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-50211832652443666622014-10-02T15:04:00.001+01:002014-10-02T21:38:40.270+01:00Just for fun <p dir="ltr">I happened to notice that it is World Poetry Day today, so thought I would join in & penned this little ditty. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Dear Public Health, I know you are listening<br>
We are trying to help but your attitude's blistering. <br>
There are good ones among you, <br>
Not even that scarce, <br>
It's time you embraced us, <br>
Not feed us to bears. </p>
<p dir="ltr">The bears are Big T and Big Pharma too,<br>
Your own ideology aligns with the WHO. <br>
But we are your charges, <br>
For us you must care, <br>
Our health should come first, <br>
It's one thing we share. </p>
<p dir="ltr">We are not addicts nor are we trolls, <br>
But this story rolls on oh it rolls & it rolls. <br>
We promise to be reasonable, <br>
Do you promise too?<br>
There's a lot to be gained here, <br>
And too much to lose. </p>
<p dir="ltr">So smoker or vaper we are using our voice,<br>
What we ask for is simple, what we ask for is choice. <br>
Harm reduction is obvious, <br>
When you open your eyes. <br>
Take a breath & dive in, <br>
And stop with the lies.</p>
Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-59386307043729035402014-09-17T17:11:00.001+01:002014-09-17T17:18:44.792+01:00The Indefatigable Frog, or Why this won't stop us!<div class="MsoNormal">
So this is becoming a bit of a theme and I am going to take
that theme and look at it again from another angle. <a href="http://www.clivebates.com/?p=2391" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">Clive</span></a> has written
fantastically on why Public Health need to address how they view the public. <a href="http://www.redheadfullofsteam.com/its-different-when-they-do-it/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">Jo</span></a>
has addressed the difference between us banding together and Public Health banding together and I am going to address just why us vapers have tinkered with
miffed, passed through irked, sailed right over gobsmacked and are now firmly
settled in Furious. I want to take this back to before we were vapers though,
perhaps to give a little more insight.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
I will use myself an as example, cos I know all my own
details and that makes it a bit easier.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
I started smoking when I was 12. I already knew it was bad
and was used to hearing my nan nag my dad about him stopping. I also grew up
with my dad not being able to smoke in the house. So by 12, I was well aware
that smoking is bad enough that you are not allowed to do it around other
people. Of course, I still started smoking. I smoked until I was a little over
34. So that is 22 years by the numbers. I am going to round it up to 23 cos it
makes this simpler. <o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
I am 36 now. This means, that for 2/3rds of my life, I was a
‘dirty smoker’. Something that society was at pains to remind me about on a
daily basis, with my freedom to smoke being restricted more and more. I am sure
I was not the only smoker to feel utterly sickened to read news articles
condemning adoptive parents for smoking, that they should be prevented from
giving love and security to a vulnerable child, all because they enjoyed a
cigarette. As a parent, this strikes a bit of fear into you. Will they condemn
parents that smoke? Will they one day say my children should be taken away from
me cos I go into the garden to have a ciggy?<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
But it was nastier than that. They ran adverts about
horrible tobacco guzzling parents, so that all of society could hate me a
little bit more, as the adverts on the tellybox had told them what an appalling
mother I was. <o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
The public at large already sneered at me, customers at my
workplace would comment on my habit, tell me it would ruin my skin, age me or
how it made me look ugly. Really personal stuff, and insulting too. I did not
know these people, who were they to tell me that I was ugly because I smoked? I
wish I were kidding, but I used to get these comments with relative frequency.
If they could think of nothing particularly personal, they would settle with ‘Bad
for you, that’ as though somehow I must just have missed the adverts, posters,
flyers, billboards, comments etc and was happily thinking I was replacing one
of my 5 a day with some tobacco leaves. So I was stupid, too.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br />
To recap – I was stupid, ugly, will be ugly, a bad mother and society thought I
stank.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Then when the smoking ban came into affect, by which time I
had switched to rollies, I would stand at work and roll myself a ciggy before
going outside for a break. I remember catching a woman looking at me as I
fashioned a perfectly cylindrical tube of ‘I am going outside so you lot can
stop clicking your damn fingers at me for service’ to see such a look of
disgust on her face that it really took me back for a moment. I had never had a
stranger look at me like that before. Pure unadulterated loathing for me
rolling a ciggie. I probably could have chopped out a line of coke, or rolled
up my sleeve to tap for a vein and not been looked at like I was just then. <o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Post the 2007 ban, things just got worse in terms of how ppl
treated me. The adverts got more aggressive, the second hand smoke messages got
more aggressive. So now rather than just being ugly, smelly, stupid and a bad
parent I was also dangerous. <o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
If you are not a vaper or smoker and are reading this,
imagine for just one second, what that must be like? To spend 2/3rds of your
life being treated like this, looked at in this way. Remember that poor woman
who ignited her oxygen tube with a lighter? Seek it out – look at the comments
and see what the public thinks of smokers. The vitriol and hatred is something
to behold. A poor woman made a horrible mistake whilst still under the effects
of a general anaesthetic and what did the public say? She deserved it. Why? </div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #e06666;"><u>Because she was a smoker.</u></span><o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
For the record, I think they were wrong! I think to demonise
a group of people so determinedly as they did with smokers is inhuman and
immoral. However, there is no escaping
the fact that when I took up vaping instead, I thought I had freed myself from
that. I do not look for people to accept me, I do not and did not want to be
confirmed as a human again, but I did think that would stop.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Well it hasn’t and frankly, it has gotten worse. </div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
So, ask
youselves. Why am I angry? Why are many vapers angry?<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
We have tried to talk to you. We have written to you, we
have emailed you and we have tweeted you. You have largely ignored us. You have
written articles that hide behind paywalls discrediting us with accusations and
thinly veiled but loaded reminders of ‘What The Tobacco Industry Did To Us’,
that you have ‘Seen All This Before’. You told us our stories are not true. You
go to the public and you tell them that we are to be feared just as we were as
smokers. That we have not achieved anything, by moving the goalposts: Is the
endgame tobacco free, or nicotine free? You use your media presence to say
things that evidence has not shown and common sense denies. And what can we do
about it?<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<u><span style="color: #e06666;">Nothing</span></u>.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
We cannot answer, we
cannot explain to you why a custard flavoured e-liquid is so important to us. Why
we have faith in what we are trying to advocate because WE were the very
smokers you had not got a chance of getting to Quit. When we use one of the
only mediums we have available to us to contact you, you block us without
deigning to answer, then profess to your peers that you are being attacked, by ecig zealots or tobacco stooges. You
use your credibility to convince others that you are right. Afterall, we are
just addicts. Have you the first CLUE how insanely insulting this is? This is not our job, we do it because we want to keep this movement going. We do this for FREE, for NOTHING. No one pays us. YOU on the other hand are paid. You are paid to look after our health. </div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Understand, this is NOT related to any one individual, this has happened for
as long as I have been doing this and before, it is not new but has worsened. And what can
we do? </div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<u><span style="color: #e06666;">Nothing.</span></u><o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
We do not have funding. We do not have the ear of the media.
We do not have letters after our names. We do not have influence. We do not
have swathes of respecting public and academics. We are normal as normal can
be. But we do have something! We have experience and knowledge and
understanding of what it is to be a smoker then a vaper. We can see first hand
why this is working and what will stop it, dead in its tracks. We are trying to
warn you that the direction of travel you are choosing is going to cause untold
damage to people’s lives, but you will not listen.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
And why do we do this? It is not to save our arses! The
loudest and most active of us will continue to vape no matter what you do. We
can be self-sufficient, that is something you cannot prevent. We do this
because there are hundreds of millions of smokers across the planet who face
being denied the opportunity that we had. That is not acceptable. That is not OK, not in any world, at any moment in space or time. We are not out to convert
people, just to stop you from scaring them off of a new and safer habit that
may well save their life, at the very least, improve it if they choose!<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Is that a bad thing? No, and it is something <u>YOU</u> should be
doing too.<br />
<br />
But be clear, those of you that are doing this to us, there are others amongst you are are looking at you askance. </div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<o:p></o:p></div>
<br />
<div class="MsoNormal">
So why are we angry? We did what you want, just not how you wanted us to, or BECAUSE you wanted us to, and you still
persist with the demonisation. Except, this time, you are lying about us
personally.<o:p></o:p></div>
Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com28tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-35681192598637820882014-09-07T23:25:00.001+01:002014-09-08T08:14:32.406+01:00Dear FPH - Just a quick word about John Ashton.Unless it escaped your notice or perhaps you have not grasped just how batshit crazy Mr Ashton went this weekend, these blogs (<a href="http://dickpuddlecote.blogspot.co.uk/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">Dick</span></a>, <a href="http://www.redheadfullofsteam.com/a-letter-to-the-uk-faculty-of-public-health/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">Jo</span></a>, <span style="color: #6fa8dc;"><a href="http://therandomvamper.wordpress.com/2014/09/07/professor-john-ashton-cbe-the-meltdown/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">Random Vaper</span></a> </span>and <a href="http://vapemestoopid.co.uk/professor-john-ashton-epic-twitter-tantrum/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">VapeMeStoopid</span></a>) have the screenshots you need to see. This behaviour was NOT based on our beloved Fergus (or anyone) exercising his expansive knowledge of colourful & creative insults (which he didn't!) or anyone being abusive. This snowballed after a few of us asked reasonable and polite questions. Actually, one question got me blocked. Others didn't even have the luxury of ONE question. Thinking about it, I have no idea if I was blocked BEFORE all of this, none of us do!<br />
<br />
Anyhow, hopefully you have seen the pics of the tweets and understand the true absurdity of the situation. I know others have done this too, but here is my personal letter of complaint to the Faculty of Public Health.<br />
<br />
--------<br />
<br />
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Dear,<o:p></o:p></div>
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This is not a letter I take any pleasure in writing but I
feel that, in the circumstances, there is no other option. Please accept the
following as a formal complaint against the President of The Faculty of Public
Health, Professor John Ashton, under section 4 of your complaints procedure, as a result of inappropriate behaviour on social media. As
such I would like confirmation of receipt of this complaint and confirmation
that it has been forwarded to the registrar.<o:p></o:p></div>
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I am a Vaper, e-cigarette user if you will, of almost two
years. I and many others have made sure that we have kept abreast of all
developments in this area in that time period. I am a genuine person who is not
in the pay of industry of any description.
I would call myself an advocate, but be clear that I am an unpaid one.
In the course of trying to get the voice of the vaper heard and considered by
those in public health, tobacco control, the media and those in politics, I
(and many others) have been subjected to many accusations and insults. We have
been shut out and discounted for many reasons. We have observed and listened to
many experts in the field of Public Health talk in the media about things that
we know not to be true and yet we have not be able to redress the balance with
what we see as the truth and what the data refutes.<o:p></o:p></div>
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This was never more apparent than Professor John Ashton’s
behaviour this week, having appeared
three times in the media with unsupported claims and misrepresentations of
data.</div>
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As members of the public, we do not have the ability to
comment on these assertions. We are not able to talk with Mr Ashton via
anything other than social media.<o:p></o:p></div>
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However, when approached on Twitter (initially reasonably)
myself and others found ourselves blocked with no answers given to our
questions. A brick wall was very quickly
built and from behind it, with no way of us being able to respond or defend
ourselves, Mr Ashton began to hurl abuse.
Vapers who had not been involved in trying to communicate with him whatsoever,
found themselves being told they were addicts and slaves to this addiction.
From their perspective, this came entirely out of the blue as it appears Mr
Ashton had trawled through their timelines in order to find a tweet he could
then insult them from. This one I find
to be most disturbing, please note that the tweet he attacked is dated
20/08/2014.<o:p></o:p></div>
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<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3360TK-98ws/VAzSYRarc9I/AAAAAAAAARk/0YaUYUf0FbU/s1600/ashton.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3360TK-98ws/VAzSYRarc9I/AAAAAAAAARk/0YaUYUf0FbU/s1600/ashton.jpg" height="320" width="228" /></a></div>
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For a man in a position of authority and power to deem it
appropriate to seek out and attack a member of the public for doing something
a) completely legal and b) is reducing their harm in place of smoked tobacco,
beggars belief. It is unfathomable to imagine that Mr Ashton is able to view
harm reduction for smokers with anything even approaching objectivity. To this
end, it is entirely inappropriate for him to be in a position of authority that
will have lasting effects on the future of e-cigarette usage in the UK. It is
bad enough that, as advocates, we have been shut out and ignored but to then be
called cunts, onanists, ‘lads behind the bikesheds’, addicts, tobacco industry
shills (Indeed shills for ANY industry) is beyond the pale. <o:p></o:p></div>
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If these are the thoughts that sit behind decision making
and position taking on e-cigarettes then it is clear that Professor John Ashton
and the Faculty of Public Health are not fit to be involved in the discussion. As such these personal attacks have to be
apologised for and Mr Ashton must have no further part in the wider discussion on
the place of harm reduction for smokers in society. This is a volatile
situation and involves the lives of many millions of people. To allow
yourselves to be a part of the movement that seeks to restrict access to what
may be life saving technology, based on the personal ideologies, prejudices and
ill informed opinions of one man calls into question the role of Public Health
in its entirety. <o:p></o:p></div>
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I look forward to your response,</div>
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Lorien Jollye</div>
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I removed this paragraph being as it is best we don't get drawn into the details of misrepresentation of data, it avoids them using it to distract from the situation. I am putting in here cos I need to get it off my chest.</div>
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"This was never more apparent than Professor John Ashton’s behaviour this week, having appeared three times in the media with unsupported claims and misrepresentations of data. No example is clearer than his willingness to espouse the validity of the most recent data on E-cig use in US youth, from the CDC. One would hope that Mr Ashton had done more than read the conclusion/press release and seen that the data within the study does not support the resulting media frenzy. It is of great concern that a man in Mr Ashton’s position would not read a study before taking to the airwaves in order strike fear into the hearts of every parent in the UK. This alone is questionable behaviour. Further to this, to willingly overlook and underplay statistics from both ASH and Professor Robert Wests ‘smoking toolkit’ in order to push, what can only be called an agenda, the ‘Gateway to tobacco’ theory and that ‘self respecting’ adults would not use sweet flavours."</div>
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I find this entire situation both hilarious and terrifying. Whether or not the man was drunk when he embarked upon this bonkers and vicious campaign, is irrelevant. Alcohol does not create, it amplifies. The mask slipped and my god it was covering something breathtakingly ugly. This HAS to be addressed as people like John Ashton have NO right to be involved in this when he holds the people affected in such absolute contempt.</div>
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It really is never ending, isn't it.</div>
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Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-26401581091452886322014-08-06T02:43:00.000+01:002014-08-06T02:48:41.812+01:00The Little MovementI have been wringing my hands about the fact I have not written a blog for what seems like an age. Every time I think 'Well THAT is a blog waiting to happen' life kinda gets in the way and I just do not get round to doing it. Then something else happens that infuriates or inspires me and the last thing gets forgotten. I can assure you that in my head, there have been several ground breaking, breath taking, heart rending blogs that will never see the light of day. Mainly because I have forgotten them.<br />
<br />
So instead of all that lost brilliance with which I would have blinded you all, I will tell you a story and it starts with my job, which if you didn't know, is waitressing. Not glamourous and to be honest, in the height of summer in a 400 year old building with no ventilation, frankly sweaty!<br />
<br />
I started this particular job in 2011. 2012 was when I saw my first 'proper' vapouriser, in the hands of my bosses. She had a dinky ego thing with a carto on top and he a bloody great tank of some sort (I still do not know what it was). I had only seen cigalikes up till that point and was not the least bit interested. I was a roll-ups smoker so I had no association with a plastic cigarette whatsoever. These fancy shiny funky tank thingies were something else though. And they had all these lush flavours like caramel and cinnamon and stuff. I remember going home to enthuse to my hubby about these bonkers things I had seen, he looked at me like possibly I ought not to have driven myself home cos clearly I had drunk too much after work and was talking nonsense.<br />
<br />
My interest was piqued though, so I sat at the PC and sought out the site my boss had told me about. Scared myself shitless and thought I would look again at some other point. I did, still had not got a clue what I was looking at, what the hell a boge cartomiser was or why I would want to punch one or what a coil was and why they came in 1.8ohms and 2.4ohms and WHAT THE HELL?!?! AM I BACK IN SCHOOL?!<br />
<br />
If you have read my first blog you will know what eventually forced me to bite the bullet. If you haven't, then read it cos I am not going to explain again now. The Why, is <a href="http://theindefatigablefrog.blogspot.co.uk/2014_03_01_archive.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">here</span></a>, the How is another matter. I sat staring at page after page of 'stuff', occasionally exclaiming to my husband 'What the hell is this? What does it do? Do we need one? Two? I am going to do this! I swear I am not leaving this seat until I have. FFS WHAT IS 18MG AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN? Ok, I'll just make a coffee and look again. YES I KNOW IT IS 1 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING THANK YOU VERY MUCH!'.<br />
<br />
Eventually I signed up to the forum for that vendor. Introduced myself and asked for help. And I got it, I got so much of it I felt a bit like crying. I was a fish out of water and I was stepping into what was clearly an established community, and they embraced me! I mean, I asked every moronic question you have ever heard. I even posted exactly what was in my basket to ask if it was right. All the things we have seen countless others do on our respective forums. They helped me. Supported me. Patiently explained what everything meant.<br />
<br />
I ordered all the kit and knew that when it arrived I would be back on there asking what to do next. I felt safe doing that. I knew there would be friendly answers, 'how's it going's. I felt no pressure whatsoever and a group of strangers helped cement the idea in my mind that I was going to enjoy this! I was actually looking FORWARD to it. I have a lot to thank that forum for and although it is still going it is not very political so probably not reading this, but if any one of you are, please have my thanks and pass them on to those still active.<br />
<br />
So why is this relevant? About a week ago someone who is not a vaper, but is an ardent supporter with basic knowledge, asked for help to buy a kit for a smoking friend. Among the ensuing emails between a small group of us, it came up just how confusing this can all be to the new person jumping in. Or, in this case, the person buying a vapouriser on behalf of someone else.<br />
<br />
So I logged into that first forum tonight (just before writing that last paragraph) and revisited my first few posts. I almost do not recognise the person writing (apart from the stupid sense of humour which I seem to have lost along the way). My attitude towards myself as a smoker. What I wanted from vaping. That 'vapers tongue' that hits in the first few weeks that mean you can't taste anything. What can happen when you start on a VG blend. I remembered all the support as written above, but reading through it all, it was SO much more.<br />
<br />
I have learnt a lot about myself and my habit in the past 21 months as I am sure we all have, whatever the length of our journey. However, I had forgotten what it was LIKE to be that person, first putting their toe into the water, how bewildered I was. I had forgotten JUST how fundamental that support was in my success. I was a fairly typical smoker for whom all the organised, sterilised support systems were never going to work. Irregardless of how good they were and we know there <i>are</i> good ones out there! I was not and am not exceptional, I was normal. There are millions like me.<br />
<br />
Jump to this weekend at Vapefest and I am reminded again of what this community is. A beautiful soul of a man (@bobtherandom) sat at a picnic bench, whilst it tried to rain on us, with a butane powered soldering iron trying to fix my Evic.<br />
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<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9aDgS6PZZ0/U-GEujZgnOI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/yTEdfcQnGjU/s1600/20140802_145750.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9aDgS6PZZ0/U-GEujZgnOI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/yTEdfcQnGjU/s1600/20140802_145750.jpg" height="240" width="320" /></a></div>
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<br />
<br />
Another friend (@twigolet) offering me the spare bed in her room to save me camping on my own, so I could go to the event. Why? Because that is what this community can do, it is what it does.<br />
<br />
It is not just what happens online in forums and on Twitter or Facebook, it is every snatched conversation on the street or at work when a smoker asks a question and someone has an answer.<br />
<br />
Vaping is a movement, millions of people who aren't even really aware of what they are a part of, but when called upon for help, they will give it. Not for anything in return, but cos they want to share and they understand. Despite the title (another <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Movement" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">PKD</span></a> reference) there is nothing little about it.<br />
<br />
THIS is what makes us all remarkable. Incredible even. I will link to three of my first threads for you to read, especially read the stories in the 2nd thread ( <span style="color: #6fa8dc;"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;"><a href="http://www.liberty-flights.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5915.msg214650#msg214650" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">Shiny</span></a>, <a href="http://www.liberty-flights.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5919.0" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">Benefits</span></a>, <a href="http://www.liberty-flights.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6042.msg219879#msg219879" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">Weird</span></a></span>.</span>). Don't forget that this is how many of us started and many are now joining in the same way. Don't forget the help you might have needed at the very beginning and that each of us are essentially On Call for that moment when someone needs support. We shouldn't preach, we are not out to convert. This is not a religion and we are not zealots.<br />
<br />
In amongst all the political wrangling, the blind ideological arguments we find ourselves fighting against, the anger, frustration and upset all this causes, don't forget to feel proud about what we are a part of.<br />
<br />
When <a href="http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jean-Francois_Etter" target="_blank"><span style="color: #6fa8dc;">Jean-Francois Etter</span> </a>said 'You cannot stop a tsunami with a law', he was right.<br />
<br />
The community is what drives that.<br />
<br />
Thank you xx<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-30615913531830673772014-05-26T10:50:00.000+01:002014-05-26T11:00:04.963+01:00Authors Note <div dir="ltr">
The author in this case is not me, it's Philip K Dick. It was written about drug use & when I read this at 12 or 13 years old it had a profound impact on me. I'm not saying it mirrors what's going on, but I can't help but feel there are some similarities. Take from it what you will. <br />
<br /></div>
<div dir="ltr">
A SCANNER DARKLY<br />
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<div dir="ltr">
Author's Note<br />
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<div dir="ltr">
This has been a novel about some people who were punished entirely too much for what they did. They wanted to have a good time, but they were like children playing in the street; they could see one after another of them being killed -- run over, maimed, destroyed -- but they continued to play anyhow. We really all were very happy for a while, sitting around not toiling but just bullshitting and playing, but it was for such a terrible brief time, and then the punishment was beyond belief: even when we could see it, we could not believe it. For example, while I was writing this I learned that the person on whom the character Jerry Fabin is based killed himself. My friend on whom I based the character Ernie Luckman died before I began the novel. For a while I myself was one of these children playing in the street; I was, like the rest of them, trying to play instead of being grown up, and I was punished. I am on the list below, which is a list of those to whom this novel is dedicated, and what became of each.<br />
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Drug misuse is not a disease, it is a decision, like the decision to step out in front of a moving car. You would call that not a disease but an error in judgment. When a bunch of people begin to do it, it is a social error, a life-style. In this particular life-style the motto is "Be happy now because tomorrow you are dying," but the dying begins almost at once, and the happiness is a memory. It is, then, only a speeding up, an intensifying, of the ordinary human existence. It is not different from your life-style, it is only faster. It all takes place in days or weeks or months instead of years. "Take the cash and let the credit go," as Villon said in 1460. But that is a mistake if the cash is a penny and the credit a whole lifetime.<br />
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There is no moral in this novel; it is not bourgeois; it does not say they were wrong to play when they should have toiled; it just tells what the consequences were. In Greek drama they were beginning, as a society, to discover science, which means causal law. Here in this novel there is Nemesis: not fate, because anyone of us could have chosen to stop playing in the street, but, as I narrate from the deepest part of my life and heart, a dreadful Nemesis for those who kept on playing. I myself, I am not a character in this novel; I am the novel. So, though, was our entire nation at this time. This novel is about more people than I knew personally. Some we all read about in the newspapers. It was, this sitting around with our buddies and bullshitting while making tape recordings, the bad decision of the decade, the sixties, both in and out of the establishment. And nature cracked down on us. We were forced to stop by things dreadful.<br />
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<div dir="ltr">
If there was any "sin," it was that these people wanted to keep on having a good time forever, and were punished for that, but, as I say, I feel that, if so, the punishment was far too great, and I prefer to think of it only in a Greek or morally neutral way, as mere science, as deterministic impartial cause-and-effect. I loved them all.<br />
<br />
Here is the list, to whom I dedicate my love:<br />
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<div dir="ltr">
To Gaylene - deceased<br />
To Ray - deceased<br />
To Francy - permanent psychosis<br />
To Kathy - permanent brain damage<br />
To Jim - deceased<br />
To Val - massive permanent brain damage<br />
To Nancy - permanent psychosis<br />
To Joanne - permanent brain damage<br />
To Maren - deceased<br />
To Nick - deceased<br />
To Terry - deceased<br />
To Dennis - deceased<br />
To Phil - permanent pancreatic damage<br />
To Sue - permanent vascular damage<br />
To Jerri - permanent psychosis and vascular<br />
damage<br />
...and so forth.<br />
<br /></div>
<div dir="ltr">
In Memoriam.<br />
<br />
These were comrades whom I had; there are no better. They remain in my mind, and the enemy will never be forgiven. The "enemy" was their mistake in playing. Let them all play again, in some other way, and let them be happy.</div>
Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-17540092083281092842014-05-20T16:51:00.001+01:002014-05-23T12:29:03.612+01:00The War with the Fnools PT 2<div>
Thank you for joining me for the 2nd part of this bi-blog special. Part one is underneath this post.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
Funnily enough, I am writing this part not long after Robert West's data appeared and the media went into meltdown. Most notably The Guardian. If you haven't already, read it <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/20/e-cigarettes-nicotine-patches-smoking-study?commentpage=1"><span style="color: red;">now</span></a>. That is not a request!</div>
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<br /></div>
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Back to the PHE meeting.....</div>
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<div>
We already have an idea of what The Chief Medical Officer, Special Scientific Advisor to the Governement, Dame Sally Davies, thinks of vaping thanks to <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25319-dont-let-vaping-obesity-and-boozing-become-norms.html"><span style="color: #6aa84f;">this article in the New Scientist</span></a>. However, I was not prepared for what I had to endure for her presentation. </div>
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<br /></div>
<div>
She is still having some aversion issues with using the word Vaping. It upsets her that word. So does 'vaping lounges' apparently. Sorry about that Sally (I'm not, 'grow up' springs to mind!). Her entire sermon seemed based on her power and influence which she was at pains to remind us about...over and over...</div>
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As CMO she 'is protecting the population',</div>
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She has 'written to all ministers as <u>Senior Medical Advisor</u>' (She verbally underlined that),</div>
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<br /></div>
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She is 'worried, and I tell you this as the head of this profession'.</div>
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<br /></div>
<div>
There were a few more of these, but frankly I got bored of writing down her attempts to continually remind everyone that she is their Boss, that there is None Higher and because she is worried, we should all be worried. Cos she told us to be.</div>
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<br /></div>
<div>
God Complex anyone?</div>
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<br /></div>
<div>
A few other telling nuggets were;</div>
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<br /></div>
<div>
'Horrified' that ecig packets could be emptied out and tobacco cigarettes could be put in.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
Normalisation and Glamourisation were proved conclusively by her daughter (of undisclosed age) 'dragging' her to an e-cig display to show her 'how beautiful they were'. STOP PRESS! In light of this new evidence, I feel the only appropriate thing to do would be to redesign all e-cigarettes to look like turds. </div>
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<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-061GQQEN6rY/U3spzqd4TzI/AAAAAAAAALg/clWL75UmAxk/s1600/shit.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-061GQQEN6rY/U3spzqd4TzI/AAAAAAAAALg/clWL75UmAxk/s1600/shit.png" height="179" width="320" /></a></div>
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<div style="text-align: left;">
I think it is only reasonable, after all, smokers to do not deserve beautiful things. Aesthetically pleasing and tactile devices they might WANT to use. No no no, you must feel the shame of being medicated.</div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-D7tDADVly5A/U3tMdO-NasI/AAAAAAAAALs/nH69MiazeUA/s1600/Screenshot_2014-05-20-13-34-03-1.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-D7tDADVly5A/U3tMdO-NasI/AAAAAAAAALs/nH69MiazeUA/s1600/Screenshot_2014-05-20-13-34-03-1.png" height="202" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">mmmmmm tempting</td></tr>
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<div>
Then we got the classic,</div>
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'Willfully aimed at children, who wants flavours?'<br />
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Well actually, now that you mention it...</div>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-40vjIKkZW0Y/U3tP4tOIEII/AAAAAAAAAME/U0M3ORu9x18/s1600/325SavviePhotographySP3_1052.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-40vjIKkZW0Y/U3tP4tOIEII/AAAAAAAAAME/U0M3ORu9x18/s1600/325SavviePhotographySP3_1052.jpg" height="212" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">This was the sweet table at my wedding. Do you know who had the biggest bags of sugary loveliness? The adults. They stripped that table. (Yes, that is Hubba Bubba)</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nJIUe4MTtvo/U3tOzTG9rSI/AAAAAAAAAL4/Bq_ibnhYEN0/s1600/IMG_20140519_131934.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nJIUe4MTtvo/U3tOzTG9rSI/AAAAAAAAAL4/Bq_ibnhYEN0/s1600/IMG_20140519_131934.jpg" height="297" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Bought these on Saturday - cos I like Sherbert & Liquorice.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
I figured I might as well ask Twitter too...</div>
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Yeah so quite clearly, no one likes flavours.... Oh and do checkout www.cybercandy.co.uk and have a little looksie at all the product reviews. If you have time, you can message all those adults and tell them that they do not like flavoursome things after all and that maybe they would like some of those Dog Breath crisps that are so popular.<br />
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There is one thing that was said during her diatribe though. One thing that should define this woman as the menace to public health that she is. In her position as absolute authority for Public Health in this country, what do you think her message is to smokers? All 9 million smokers. For whom she does not want to allow the option of harm reduction, but also admits that NRT fails.</div>
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Her message?</div>
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<span style="font-size: x-large;">'Smokers should just grow a backbone'.</span></div>
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And there it is. Quit Or Die in the starkest way I can possibly imagine. If you are not disgusted, you damn well should be. THIS is the callousness we knew existed, but did we realise that it sat RIGHT AT THE TOP? Advising government? Influencing the opinions of Public Health? It is repugnant. This woman cannot protect public health when as far as she is concerned 20% of the population can just die due to her unfathomable ignorance.</div>
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I have nothing further to say on this woman. Nothing.</div>
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So instead, lets touch briefly on McKee. </div>
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'Cherry crush candy leads to smoking'</div>
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'Insecticide' </div>
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He does 'not even know why were are having this discussion'</div>
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'We WILL catch up' with the forward thinking of New York and Australia. This is the future (and it really is not bright).</div>
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He was perplexed as to why a symposium on e-cigs was not covering Plain Packaging.</div>
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And then. Oh yes and then...what could Martin Mckee possibly say? What could a Professor in Public Health have to say when it is clear he has nothing? When the subject of nicotine use in pregnant women was raised, after it was made clear that NRT is of no use and nicotine of no real concern (by actual experts), what is the most inappropriate and desperate comment that could be made?</div>
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<span style="font-size: x-large;">'That's what was said about Thalidomide'</span></div>
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The response to this was immediate, and unsurprisingly it was not good! People were heard to say 'disgusting'. This was boo'd, and rightly bloody so. </div>
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For the record, Martin Mckee, you should be ashamed.</div>
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As such, I would like to present to you, ladies and gentlemen of the audience, The Fnools. Definitely not a typo, but a race of aliens in a short story I read many years ago by the genius Philip K Dick. The Fnools are 2ft high aliens hell bent on destroying humanity and taking earth for themselves. But thanks to their piddling height, were easy to spot and so were usurped at every corner. Their mistake was a simple one, they looked exactly like us, but had got the height wrong. Ironically, in the story, their undoing comes at the hand of Tobacco, Alcohol and Sex. One of these vices is discovered by them and immediately, they grow 2ft, to a still paltry 4ft, but nevertheless rather unnerving. The second vice adds another 2ft and so now they stand at 6ft and are perfectly hidden among us mere humans. Alas, with victory within reach, they encounter their 3rd vice, and unable to resist, find themselves standing at 8ft tall. Clear for all to see. The proverbial thumb. There is no hiding and they are clearly visible for what they are. Inhuman. Now easily targeted and destroyed.</div>
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The Fnools thought they were winning. and they went too far and exposed themselves. </div>
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This is what we just witnessed. It is what every member of public health and tobacco control with a conscience and a genuine desire to do good (whether we agree on the methods or not) has just seen. Trust me, it is not just our stomachs that were turned. I would not be surprised if this behaviour was what broke the camel's back for Robert West. </div>
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So maybe, we should say Thank You To Mckee, Davies and their ilk. They just did us a great favour.</div>
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Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-10433852589685952432014-05-20T11:58:00.001+01:002014-06-30T22:22:29.331+01:00The War with the Fnools pt 1So, I was debating on how to go about this blog, after all, there is rather a lot to say. So it is a two parter.<br />
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Oh, and no, it is not a typo, 'Fnools' will be explained in part 2.<br />
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Let me start by saying a Thank you to Public Health England. Whatever we might think or have thought about them, they did not have to to invite us into their space. Yes of course they <i>should</i> do, there are lots of things that <i>should</i> have happened, but that does not mean they have or will. I am genuinely grateful that we were given a seat and a voice. The agenda for the day, including speakers can be found <span style="color: #6aa84f;"><a href="https://www.phe-events.org.uk/hpa/frontend/reg/thome.csp?pageID=137294&eventID=344&eventID=344"><span style="color: #6aa84f;">here</span></a>. </span>Probably worth a quick look before starting this.<br />
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The best summary of the Public Health England Symposium, from our perspective, is this video <a href="http://www.vapourtrails.tv/?p=8717"><span style="color: #6aa84f;">here</span></a>. Dave Dorn and myself were both present for the entire day, Oliver Kershaw was a guest panelist in the afternoon session. The link will take you to the VTtalk show we did together with Sav, on Sunday 18th May. I highly suggest you watch it if you have not already.<br />
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All in all, this was positive stuff. Very positive. Given the similarities between the pro-ecig, pro-harm reduction people speaking, I will give an overview.<br />
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Tobacco control have made NO effort to utilise Harm Reduction. They are failing smokers; specifically smokers in manual professions and those suffering with mental illness.<br />
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QwnWeAoJbDg/U3sRCqKjlGI/AAAAAAAAAKk/Ebvg2ZVDyew/s1600/Screenshot_2014-05-20-09-20-49-1.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QwnWeAoJbDg/U3sRCqKjlGI/AAAAAAAAAKk/Ebvg2ZVDyew/s1600/Screenshot_2014-05-20-09-20-49-1.png" height="320" width="212" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Slide from Anne McNeill presentation.</td></tr>
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The reduction in smoking rates are just not reflected in these groups, they remain largely unaffected by all that TC has done.<br />
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However, the impact that e-cigs are having are unprecedented. In 30 years, Anne McNeill had seen nothing like this happen. This year we have seen a leveling out of e-cigarette use in ALL socioeconomic groups.</div>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-39QtIWoHEnA/U3sVpzNBMhI/AAAAAAAAAKw/684gy10AhBY/s1600/Screenshot_2014-05-20-09-40-47-1.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-39QtIWoHEnA/U3sVpzNBMhI/AAAAAAAAAKw/684gy10AhBY/s1600/Screenshot_2014-05-20-09-40-47-1.png" height="239" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">This might be stuff that we realise, but from a PH perspective, this is dreams coming true! Slide from McNeill presentation.</td></tr>
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Allowing NRT to be sold Over The Counter without the behavioural support offered by cessation services was a mistake. A mistake that cost lives.</div>
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Disallowing Europeans the option of Snus as Harm Reduction was a mistake. A mistake that cost lives. The success of snus in Sweden comes from the easy availability. Smokers are making a choice at the point of sale.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xM23JOHuWxc/U3sYxW7mryI/AAAAAAAAALE/ZrGk9Ao0B2o/s1600/Screenshot_2014-05-20-09-53-52-1.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xM23JOHuWxc/U3sYxW7mryI/AAAAAAAAALE/ZrGk9Ao0B2o/s1600/Screenshot_2014-05-20-09-53-52-1.png" height="213" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Snus in action. From John Britton presentation.</td></tr>
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Tobacco Control and Public Health are being misinformed and misled by poor peer review and Press releases of studies that do not reflect the data contained within the study itself.</div>
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E-cigs are being subjected to unjustified panic led scrutiny. If this same scrutiny were to be applied to Plain Packaging, it would not be going ahead!</div>
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If the entire population used Nicotine the health impacts would be negligible. The health implications of nicotine use in pregnant women is of 'no significant concern'. NRT has had NO impact in this area (Most recently shown<span style="color: #6aa84f;"> <a href="http://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.g1622">here</a></span>).</div>
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'These things need to be available anywhere tobacco is', in fact, they need to be everywhere. Marketing needs to be clever, aimed at adults and promoting vaping. 'Social media marketing is essential'. It is entirely possible that Public Health have scored an own goal by allowing advertising to be solely from a lifestyle product perspective.</div>
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The media coverage has been hysterical and disproportionate. 'Diabetics and suffers of Heart Disease are now too frightened to use e-cigs'.</div>
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'Peoples lives are at stake.'</div>
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'No renormalisation of smoking, only normalisation of vaping.'</div>
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'The evidence is going the opposite way to what PH and TC are saying.'</div>
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'E-cigs are already having the desired effect.'<br />
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And finally, this point was made by Martin Dockrell, with passion and very pointedly at every individual present in the room. It was an instruction.<br />
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'Talk to vapers!'<br />
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All of the above may look like common sense to us. This is what we have been shouting about for all this time. <i>We</i> know all this. But, NONE of this was said by <u>us</u>. This came from <a href="http://www.ucl.ac.uk/hbrc/tobacco/westr.html"><span style="color: #6aa84f;">Robert West</span></a>, <a href="http://www.kcl.ac.uk/iop/depts/addictions/people/profiles/AnnMcNeill.aspx"><span style="color: #6aa84f;">Anne McNeill,</span></a> Martin Dockrell and<span style="color: #6aa84f;"> <a href="http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/News/ExpertiseGuide/Experts/B/ProfessorJohnBritton.aspx"><span style="color: #6aa84f;">John Britton</span></a>.</span> The frustration was palpable. The irritation at the risk aversion coming from within their own field. The above might not look all that significant, or unusual, because it's what we already know. But it is! Yes, they have safety concerns. Yes, they want to understand what is causing toxins; is it the fluid or the heating? Yes, they are concerned about poor nicotine delivery from substandard devices putting people off.<br />
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Aren't we concerned about these things too?<br />
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Are these concerns enough to stop this in it's tracks?<br />
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Our answer? No!<br />
Their answer? No!<br />
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But, my favourite picture from the entire day. The moment that made me say 'Shit - they've got it! They've finally got it!' and grab Dave Dorn's arm, was this from John Britton, and the caption is his, not mine.<br />
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iQAjqr73Zs8/U3sZ3xIWBqI/AAAAAAAAALM/Fb80pAKczkI/s1600/Screenshot_2014-05-20-09-53-38-1.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iQAjqr73Zs8/U3sZ3xIWBqI/AAAAAAAAALM/Fb80pAKczkI/s1600/Screenshot_2014-05-20-09-53-38-1.png" height="236" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">NRT does not do this.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
A happy smiling smoker. An attractive, normal woman. Smoking. They admitted that NRT just is not going to cut it. It has an image problem. He looks at us with our vibrant and strong community and then states 'There is no NRT community' to the room - and the room laughed!</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
Now this is all very positive, and a mere shapshot of the great bits from the day. There is more, of course there is more, but I am going to put it into part 2. It is a bit more...uh...ranty...</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
I will close this part with this...WE were a part of this change. Our persistence, our knowledge and our passion. We have not shut up and it looks like it is finally working. If for even a single second you think that it has all been for nothing, you are wrong. It has taken a long time, we are exhausted and the battle is still not over, but I think we all deserve a MASSIVE pat on the back. A year ago we were staring defeat in the face. The obliteration of all of this. I have lost count of the amount of times I have found somewhere quiet in my house to sit and cry where my children can't hear me. The sheer overwhelming frustration that They are just not getting it, they are not listening and are ignoring the impact of what they are trying to do.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
Well that might be changing and we have played a huge part in that. Now the data is showing that we were right and they want to listen.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
Congratulations :)</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
Part two coming shortly - and it is cross.</div>
<div>
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<br /></div>
Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-54651523471262358232014-04-22T16:33:00.000+01:002014-04-22T16:33:27.993+01:00The Invisible Smoker<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Earlier on this year, I tweeted about a conversation I had been coerced into in the pub. My poor suffering husband is bored crapless of my endless witterings about this whole situation, but when out in the wider world, people are hugely interested. Try as I might to just enjoy sitting with my friends and have a pint, it is inevitable that at some point, someone will crack a joke about my Sonic Screwdriver then mention some nonsense about something they have heard on the radio or read in the news from a trusted source (Yes BBC, I am looking at you!). My heart has a little sink and the shoulders slump a bit when this happens and what I <i>want</i> to say is 'Do you REALLY want to get into this now? I mean, I will, but...really? Now?'</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Do not get me wrong, I spend most of my waking hours thinking about all of this, but I have three kids, I do not get to the pub very often!! There is SO MUCH now - so very very much to try and explain to the uninitiated. Where do you start? How do you <u>not</u> sound like a tin hat wearing loon? Really, people need to know what the bottom line is. Why this matters.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Here is the bottom line.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">This happened in January with a group of friends, all never smokers but for one current smoker, Greyburn. Greyburn is in his 60's. A funny, intelligent, recovered alcoholic. He is vibrant, bursting with character and a joy to be around (also has a penchant for red corduroy trousers). His remaining vice is smoking. After quite a lengthy debate about the current ecig situation, with no disagreement on the absurdity of it all, Greyburn pops outside for a ciggy with his non smoking wife. I follow to have a vape (the pub overlooks the sea and the waves were massive that night, so it was an excuse to go look). After a minute or so of wave watching, Greyburn leans over to me, almost conspiratorially, and says,</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;"> 'I think you might have converted me!'</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">'Really??' I stuttered and explained that I wasn't trying to. It is a golden rule for me - never try to convert.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">'No' he says 'I really am interested'.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">I offer to write down a few links and pertinent terms for him to talk to Google about, then wander back into the pub, a little shell shocked. A moment later, his wife catches up with me, grabs my arm, pulls me down to her level and whispers in my ear that in all the time she had known him, he had never once even mentioned the 'Q' word and she could not believe what she had overheard outside.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Two days later, I had a phone call from Greyburn. His kit had arrived and would one of us mind popping over to see him to help him figure it all out.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">I saw him for the first time since, this Saturday, 3 months or so later. I had no intention of bringing up ecigs, whether it had worked for him or otherwise. I didn't need to, it was the first thing he mentioned. After his purchase, he finished off the baccy he had, and has not picked up any since. In fact, and here is the interesting bit, he loses his ecig for days at a time 'cos it looks like a pen and gets lost in my desk'. And guess what - it does not bother him a bit. Not a single bit.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">This man had NO motivation to stop smoking. None at all. This man had never visited a cessation clinic. Never picked up a patch, popped a pill or puffed on a plastic period plug.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Greyburn is the Invisible Smoker.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Yes yes, you might well point out that there is no such thing anymore as thanks to hysterical and aggressive demonisation and denormalisation, smokers have never been MORE visible than they are now. Elements of our wonderous, well paid, highly influential Tobacco Control community, have successfully segregated an entire section of society. I feel sure this has been done before....</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">So why is Greyburn, and millions like him, invisible?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Let's jump ahead, past the implentation of the TPD, past public bans, flying right over the WHO and their precious FCTC and the shoehorning of ecigs into it. Let us settle in a pub. Let us assume that the WHO and its minions out in the world have succeeded in all their aims. A group of friends, one of whom is a smoker. How different could this conversation be then? How cemented into the public psyche could it be that ecigs are as 'dangerous as tobacco'. How likely is it even, that someone will be using a 2nd or 3rd generation device? Will there still be advocates or will we have all been beaten into submission, great swathes of rules and laws smothering our ability to talk freely, use our mods. We could so easily be back outside, huddled with the smokers, being sneered at. Derided. Lied about. Propagandised against.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Demonised!</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">The conversation I had this year, may not be possible in this version of the future. </span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Greyburn is Invisible because Tobacco Control will never be able to touch him. They will never talk to him. They will never understand him.There will be no contact, no cessation clinic for him. For them, he does not exist, he is collateral damage. No amount of banning, tax increases, being put in stocks and having rotten vegetables thrown at him in the town square, will make a damned bit of difference to Greyburn.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">The conversation, over a pint, in a pub is what made the difference.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">The insane, dribble flecked rantings of the out of touch, control freak zealotry of what looks more and more like a cultish religion in the aloof elements of Public Health did this. The castrating and devaluing those who do not subscribe to their teachings and dogma made him interested. Those whose gods should be seen only in the sterile cardboard boxes adorned with the names of their Makers printed clearly upon their sides. But we embrace false idols and for this we must be punished. The likeness of our habit comparable only to the devil itself - tobacco. We must be cast from society - branded and humiliated. The modern day <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy">heretic</a>, punished with death to warn others of the danger we present to The Clean. The innocent. The children. The Believers. Our clouds of bubblegum scented vapour the tool to strike fear into the very hearts of those around us.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Greyburn looked upon you with the contempt you deserve. Your pathetic behaviour had no effect on him. You may think that 63% of smokers want to quit because they told you they did, but all that really tells you, is that 37% were brave enough to say they don't! And let me tell you this, there are many more in that 63% who do not want to either, but they are the abused of the society you created. Too scared to speak out, but they are not stopping either.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">There are a growing number among you who realise this, that there will always be smokers who want help but there are a great many who do not. More importantly, NONE of them deserve what you have done and are continuing to do. There is great respect out there for those that understand that smokers need to be given their dignity back. The bullying must stop and society at large needs to understand that if they then choose to consume nicotine in a safer manner, there is nothing to be scared of. Nicotine is not Beelzebub come to drag The Children to an eternity of damnation, presided over by the evil barons of tobacco companies. Your restrictive vision is far closer to theirs than you care to admit. As are the distasteful practices for which they are so well known. The lines are being blurred and historians will look back at this point in time and wonder where theirs end and yours start.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">There are around 9 millions smokers in the UK alone. How many are you prepared to spite for not subscribing to your mantras?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">How many of them are invisible, just like Greyburn?</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
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<br />Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com9tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-57360699723010508332014-03-04T10:43:00.001+00:002014-03-04T11:46:46.661+00:00Everything in life is only for a while - PKD<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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<br />
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">My name is Lorien. And I am a nicotine
addict.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">I feel that is how I should start
this, as though I am sat in some kind of self-help meeting of similarly
addicted and addled adults. Tangling my fingers in my hair and staring at the floor hopelessly. Battling to get through my daily life, carrying my
burden around with me like the proverbial monkey. Flailing about
helplessly beneath its weight, sobbing into my pillow at night wondering when
the pain and misery is going to end. Drowning in self-pity at all the
friends I have lost along the way, the determination to maintain my habit
having driven them all from me. Oh woe and horror is me. BEGONE DEVIL BEGONE!</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">So let us start again, and properly.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">My name is Lorien. I am a vaper.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">I do not battle with anything. I am not
miserable and I do not mourn the decisions I have made or the habit I maintain.
I smoked for 23 years and I loved it (mostly) and I have vaped for 14 months
and actually love it even more. And so what? There is something people need to
understand. I was not ill as a smoker and I am not ill as a vaper. I CHOSE to
smoke and equally I choose to vape. Like any smoker I spent years and years
being bullied and cajoled by those in public health. Then feeling they alone
were not having enough of an impact they widened their net and ensnared others
to expand their crusade; family were encouraged to join in. A little
more stretching saw friends get drawn into the routine of harassment.
Then the final blow, random people in the street, or customers at my workplace
feeling, they too, could comment on my lifestyle. If they did not feel
brave enough to comment, they would sigh, tut or sneer. Welcome to the
world of the smoker. State sanctioned bullying that creeps into every aspect of
your life.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">Here is the thing; most smokers hear all
this on an almost daily basis, and do you know what the smoker is doing in
their head? Giving the health bully a big fat heartfelt and impassioned finger!
And well they might.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">I made the switch to an electronic
cigarette in November 2012 as, very briefly, it came to light that my 12yr olds
best friend thought that smoking was the coolest thing in the world. Now, I
will defend an adults right to smoke, but I could not bear the idea of a 12
year old thinking that at his age, it was cool. So I bought an e-cig; what we
call a 2nd generation device. It looks something like a fountain pen and I
could chop and change the flavours of the refill liquid as I pleased. As it
happens, my first flavour was caramel apple pie and I loved it thank you very
much. From that first moment in my garden, it worked for me. I preferred the
taste, the experience on the inhale and exhale was not so dissimilar that I
would not be able to adjust.</span><br />
<br />
<span lang="EN-US">That was the day of my last ciggy. Did I wave it
goodbye? Did I build a pyre and send it off down the river with ceremonial
chanting </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">‘</span><span lang="EN-US">I am not a smoker I am not a smoker</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">’</span><span lang="EN-US">, dancing and general merriment?
Balloons and streamers, an announcement on the local radio station? Hire an
airplane to write across the sky? No. I just chucked my baccy in the bin
and was done with it. No pressure, no panic and no dreaded </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">‘</span><span lang="EN-US">Q</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">’</span><span lang="EN-US"> word. (NB to
public health; seriously, stop using that word! It does more harm than good
now.)</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">So if I was so committed a smoker of
tobacco, a failed multiple trier of patches and gums, a reader of smoking
self-help books, why did it work so well? After all, I did not really expect it
to and it was something of a surprise. It is because I realised that I could
continue the habit that I enjoyed so much, but this time, it came with a world
of delightful and tasty flavours. I could choose how strong I wanted my
nicotine, I could customise my experience with different devices, fiddle with the settings so I
could have more or less vapour. Tinker with the heat to suit the flavour I was using. Above all, I could do all of these things and
be doing significantly less damage to myself and none to those around me.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">What is not to like? </span><br />
<br />
<span lang="EN-US">Well, a lot if you are
a member of some parts of Public health, or an ex-smoker with the </span><span style="font-family: 宋体;">'</span><span lang="EN-US">I managed to *insert Q word* cold
turkey so I, in my superiority, deem you dirty and pathetic and forever
beholden to your addiction</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">’</span><span lang="EN-US"> attitude. Or never smoker politician or the kind of </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">‘</span><span lang="EN-US">well I don</span><span style="font-family: 宋体;">'</span><span lang="EN-US">t like it so
ALL MUST CEASE AND DESIST</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">’</span><span lang="EN-US"> person who feels the need to stand in judgement of everyone
else. That is all another matter though and not the purpose of this
letter. Though for the record, there are more than 90 studies into the safety
of e-cigs and no evidence anywhere on this entire planet that shows our darling
teenagers are turning to tobacco after standing within a mile of someone vaping. In fact,
why those publicly funded health groups continue to peddle the line ‘but we
just don’t know</span><span style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;">’ </span><span lang="EN-US">is quite beyond me. So, those people can sit in their ivory towers
proclaiming to all and sundry what we must and must not be doing and how we
should be doing it, safe in the knowledge that we all stopped listening a long
time ago.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">If I had a regret, it was not standing up
for myself as a smoker, so I am doing it doubly so now as a vaper. There is
nothing wrong with me. I do not need medicating. I am not ill. I am not a
scourge on society. We vapers (and smokers) have jobs, families, children and even
pets; all the same things that you non-smoking/vaping types do. Can you believe
it, pets indeed! </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">Nicotine is not the devil incarnate. It
does not impair my judgment, make me violent, create a dangerous driver. It has
no more a detrimental effect on society than the caffeine in your coffee and
significantly less than the alcohol in your glass of red wine. I am not harming
anyone at all and if I have to hide away how will any smoker get the chance to
ask me</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">‘</span><span lang="EN-US">What on earth
is that? A Sonic Screwdriver?</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">’</span><span lang="EN-US"> or </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">‘</span><span lang="EN-US">You smoked for 23 years? But you don</span><span style="font-family: 宋体;">'</span><span lang="EN-US">t look old enough!</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">’</span><span lang="EN-US"> (Ok, I might
have made that last one up).</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">So,</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"> Dear Public Health. I tried your
patches. I chewed your gum. I sucked on your pathetic tampon inhaler and I
watched someone I love suffer at the hands of your smoking pills. Your
expensive and well marketed lies did not work and in the end I found something
that did. I did it myself, I have paid for it myself with not a drop of tax payer
money spent! I do not need your help and I do not think I ever did. Stop acting
like a petulant child just because you did not </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">‘</span><span lang="EN-US">cure</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">’</span><span lang="EN-US"> me. You have turned into a
caricature, the bully in the playground trying to turn all the other kids
against me because I did not want to join your bland, boring, joyless, insipid,
fat free, sugar free, nicotine free, alcohol free party.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">Lots of love, hugs and kisses, someone who
already has a Nan.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">To everyone else, think of me when you boil
the kettle in the morning for that tea or coffee you 'need' to start the day,
or settle down in the evening with a glass of your favourite tipple after your
hectic day at work or with the kids. Please stop throwing around the word
addiction and consider what it really means to those that genuinely suffer with
it, whose daily lives are ruled by it. Do<span style="font-family: 宋体;"> not</span></span><span lang="EN-US"> ask me when I am going to give
this up, because I might just ask when you are going to give up your caffeine
or your glass of wine. </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">Then, just ponder for a moment how you will
feel when the health police are banging on YOUR door.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com21tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8990698070859492609.post-54625325190048572012014-03-03T23:51:00.000+00:002014-03-03T23:58:42.977+00:00Well here it is. I finally gave in and on the sage advice of a Mr Bates, made my very own blog. 'It's cathartic' he told me.<br />
<br />
Well we shall see about that, but I suspect he is right. You are unlikely to find fisking here, Jo does that. Nor are you going to find reviews and sleuthdom, Matt does that. Christopher Snowden and Dick Puddlecote have intensely well researched libertarian observation covered, and no one can break down the absurdities of regulation like Clive Bates can.<br />
<br />
Me? You are just going to get what I think and tomorrow morning I will put up my first proper entry. A letter I wrote to the wider world a while ago which niggles at me each time I turn on my laptop.<br />
<br />
"What was the point in writing me if no one is going to read me?"<br />
<br />
Well, I assume it is the letter I can hear in my head and not just 'some other voices'.<br />
<br />
Guess we will find out in the morning when I put it up.<br />
<br />
<br />Lorienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09087008836987359195noreply@blogger.com3